The place to discuss Dark Souls II
1 
Reply  

PR0T0MIZE

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:29 am
Souls: 75.00
Posts: 3
Reputation: 0
#1
So I’ve completed DS 1 and DS 3 numerous times with DLC and both are arguably my favourite games. I’ve heard that DS 2 isn’t ‘bad’ as people say, just different in terms of lore? Anyway I’ve been thinking about this for a while and just thought I’d let it out there, is it worth it?

lordherpie

Addicted
First Warden

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:09 am
Souls: 935.00
Posts: 127
Reputation: 7
#2
Warning: opinion incoming

My first recommendation is that you should go for scholar of the first sin, which bassically is Dark souls II with all DLC, some new enemy placement, new item placements and extra lore (secret new endboss too!).

Dark Souls 2, is a masterpiece, just like the other DS games. It is different at times and lore-wise it doesnt connect to DS1 or 3 very well (but there is more than enough room for lore-speculation).

some things i liked:

it features new punishment on death; everytime you die your max HP drops by a fixed percentage (can be mitigated by wearing a specific ring or using humanity to revive).

It has some really good area's (imho). the Journey down 'the gutter' was a memorable experience for me. it is a very dark area and torches in DS2 are limited in time (they can burn out). while traveling trough the gutter you can light stationary torches along the way with your own torch. upon death they stay lit which helps you navigate in this vertical maze and help you.... well.... see in the dark XD.
I personally found the areas in DS2 pretty hard. might be just me, but area's like No-mans wharf and black gulch were a proper challenge for me and i found them harder than most areas in DS1 or 3.

Bosses on the other hand... they are quite bit easier in DS2. While some felt like a proper challenge (Pursuer, dragonslayer or ancient dragon), some of them were so easy that i would label them as unmemorable (covetous demon, dragon rider, last giant).
Some bossfights have some unique features and play a bit different (think amongst the lines of wolnir and curse rotted tree in DS3).
For example: The executioner chariot boss in DS2 is running circles in a narrow corridor trying to run you over. luckily there are safe spots were you can hide. But at the same time skeletons keep spawning and make life miserable. without spoiling it, there are multiple ways to survive and defeat the boss. it wasnt very hard, but it was a cool fight (not in the last place because the music for this fight is amongst the best of the game).

Something i also like is that things you do in an area might influence the difficultie of a bosssfight. not really a feature, but there were some fun interactions that will change the boss-arena's here and there...usually resulting in an easier bossfight.

Some other changes that are unique to DS2;

Enemies will stop spawning after you killed them X times (won't even respawn after resting at a bonfire). Using a specific item will 'restore the area' respawning all enemies (and even the boss), but at a cost. The difficulty of the area after using this item will permanently be at NG+ level.

new stat: adaptability; granting poise, all-res and influences invulnarability frames while rolling and the speed at which you use consumables (including estus). other stats will look familiar.

new game + will reward you with a different boss-soul on some boss-kills. granting acces to spells/weapons unique to NG+

Many armor pieces in DS2 have extra effects on them (more souls on kill, less falling damage, raise equipment load or a certain stat or refresh spell-uses). While DS1 and 3 had this as well, DS2 has many more armors with special effects.

i could go on for a while, but bottom-line: its really good... play it :)
it might be the worst Dark souls game, its still one of the best games ever made
screw nuance :)
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 6,291.50
Posts: 1100
Reputation: 45
#3
Yes.
It’s a great game. If it was the only DS game ever made, there would be no comparison. And any complaints would be the same complaints that the series gets with every installment anyway.

If DS has become your favorite series, you would be robbing yourself of a great experience by not getting DS2.

If possible (Idk your available platforms) you should also play Demon Souls and Bloodbourne at least once. Unfortunately, these are PS exclusive (as I’m sure you probably know).

In retrospect, I only consider 3 a slightly better game than 2. More so because it was the same people behind it so it felt more like a upgraded (and lore updated) version of 1. Most of it was just a matter of subtle design that is signature to the M-crew, and mostly absent in 2. It’s not easy to describe. I could spent pages trying to nail it and still not.

2 has a different vibe. It is arguably a darker game, however they didn’t handle the flame/dark lore so well. A lot of it cheesy in 2. Mainly a certain King regurgitating what we already knew from 1, to the point of redundancy.

However. If you like making several characters and specific builds (an altoholic like me), 2 is where it’s at.
It is overflowing with awesome weapons and some really cool gear for fashion Souls.

And if you make hybrids, it’s great for that. Hybrids are limited in the other games. But certain weapons + infusing makes many viable hybrid options that aren’t gimp vs pure builds.

And power stance Greatswords.
Yes.
Do it.
And laugh your *** off after killing bosses in 2 swings.
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 6,291.50
Posts: 1100
Reputation: 45
#4
I was in transit when I posted so I skipped lord’s post.
But yes, you nailed it.
That is exactly how a friend and I called it. Worst DS game, but still one of the best games.

The next time I get a Souls itch, I’ve been thinking DS2 will be it. Possibly BB. But I kind of miss the ease of making hybrids with Blacksteel Katana. I mean... S on Dex even when infused... it starts to fall off in NG+++, but until then, it’s like being a magic ninja demigod. Even though for each magic school, their is at least one DLC boss that will laugh at you until you cry. That split DPS hurts in those cases (looking at you cheap Lady in the Sunken Kingdom).
Avatar

qeter

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:44 pm
Souls: 80.00
Bank: 6,724.00
Posts: 1321
Reputation: 32
Wiki Edits: 5
#5
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:I was in transit when I posted so I skipped lord’s post.
But yes, you nailed it.
That is exactly how a friend and I called it. Worst DS game, but still one of the best games.

The next time I get a Souls itch, I’ve been thinking DS2 will be it. Possibly BB. But I kind of miss the ease of making hybrids with Blacksteel Katana. I mean... S on Dex even when infused... it starts to fall off in NG+++, but until then, it’s like being a magic ninja demigod. Even though for each magic school, their is at least one DLC boss that will laugh at you until you cry. That split DPS hurts in those cases (looking at you cheap Lady in the Sunken Kingdom).

> ds2 worst soul game
Watch on youtube.com
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 6,291.50
Posts: 1100
Reputation: 45
#6
qeter wrote:
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:I was in transit when I posted so I skipped lord’s post.
But yes, you nailed it.
That is exactly how a friend and I called it. Worst DS game, but still one of the best games.

The next time I get a Souls itch, I’ve been thinking DS2 will be it. Possibly BB. But I kind of miss the ease of making hybrids with Blacksteel Katana. I mean... S on Dex even when infused... it starts to fall off in NG+++, but until then, it’s like being a magic ninja demigod. Even though for each magic school, their is at least one DLC boss that will laugh at you until you cry. That split DPS hurts in those cases (looking at you cheap Lady in the Sunken Kingdom).

> ds2 worst soul game
Watch on youtube.com




I don’t count anything online related.
I didn’t play online until 3, and that started because I just bought the system and it kept trying to close my game if I wasn’t online (due to not making the PS4 my primary yet. Was weird)
I realized soon into 3 that there wasn’t enough to the game to keep me playing after I beat it. So I figured, ‘why not’. And I stayed online hoping it would stretch out the game life for me.
It did, though I didn’t come out it with much of a changed opinion on how online is handled. My enjoyment came from laughs. Soulsbourne is by far the most humorous online experience I’ve ever had.

I’ve played many MMO, MOBA, and RTS games. I love online/competitive gameing. Soulsbourne is a mockery of it. It has it’s interesting themes and implementation. But I can’t take it serious for even a second.

Summon signs are a mind-numbingly annoying way to co-op and duel. It’s a neat concept. It ends there. They fixed it somewhat in 3 with passwords, but it was still annoying.

Phantom range ruins any chance of PvP having a purpose. The DS1 RM has the least problems with PR, and for that reason it started to actually feel like it belonged in the game.

Invasions are the equivalent of a kid stomping another kids sand castle. In 3 I was a purple phantom a lot. I stomped my share of sandcastles, so it’s not a jab. It’s just the reality. A game like DS is designed around building your character. Invaders are there to stop you from doing that. ( I primarily invaded post Pontiff because of the chaos. I didn’t like hunting single players in other levels trying to just play. I tried it enough to know I didn’t like it at all. But fighting gank squads was fun for a bit)

Co-op makes the games too easy. With the exception of a handful of bosses in 3 (mostly dlc), none of the fights ever seemed balanced for co-op.
The majority of challenging fights become pointless with extra people. Just zergfests.
However, fights like Midir, the two Demons, and even Friede seemed fairly balanced for co-op. And fun.
Possibly twin Princes. I always had trouble with them because I always wear light gear and never use shields (since 2). But even then, with just one summons the fight became too easy. Same deal with Nameless, though he is easier imo. I didn’t have trouble soloing Nameless in NG+ after I had my build together.
So I can’t count them the same as I do the DLC bosses, which was the first time in Soulsbourne that I felt like I was playing bosses designed for multiplayer.


Bloodstains and random ghosts from players are not interesting. They are obtrusive and obnoxious.
And Messages... they were always the worst. Either trolling, brain dead Sunbro praises, or hints in a game that is fun because of all the surprises...
And they are everywhere, cluttering otherwise intriguing environments.
This might sound weird, but Bloodstains, Ghosts, and Messages were the main reason I didn’t play online until 3. If you compare them visually, they looked way cheesier in the older games, more floating above the ground than actually on it. I hated them. It broke my immersion seeing them everywhere. I play to RP.

Anyway. I love all the games and have no issue with someone praising 2 above the others. If 2 would have had a enough changes to set it apart lorewise and been called something other than DS, I would rate it equally with DeS, DS1, and BB. And above 3. But as a DS game, it gets knocked down a peg.
Avatar

qeter

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:44 pm
Souls: 80.00
Bank: 6,724.00
Posts: 1321
Reputation: 32
Wiki Edits: 5
#7
As far as the criticisms of online go, wrong by self evident truth.

This holy war has been fought many times and i'd rather not tread this weary ground again. PROTOMIZE if you do end up playing and beating the full game come back and tell what you thought of it and we shall hear your judgement and consider it as another page in this tale.

PR0T0MIZE

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:29 am
Souls: 75.00
Posts: 3
Reputation: 0
#8
lordherpie wrote:Warning: opinion incoming

My first recommendation is that you should go for scholar of the first sin, which bassically is Dark souls II with all DLC, some new enemy placement, new item placements and extra lore (secret new endboss too!).

Dark Souls 2, is a masterpiece, just like the other DS games. It is different at times and lore-wise it doesnt connect to DS1 or 3 very well (but there is more than enough room for lore-speculation).

some things i liked:

it features new punishment on death; everytime you die your max HP drops by a fixed percentage (can be mitigated by wearing a specific ring or using humanity to revive).

It has some really good area's (imho). the Journey down 'the gutter' was a memorable experience for me. it is a very dark area and torches in DS2 are limited in time (they can burn out). while traveling trough the gutter you can light stationary torches along the way with your own torch. upon death they stay lit which helps you navigate in this vertical maze and help you.... well.... see in the dark XD.
I personally found the areas in DS2 pretty hard. might be just me, but area's like No-mans wharf and black gulch were a proper challenge for me and i found them harder than most areas in DS1 or 3.

Bosses on the other hand... they are quite bit easier in DS2. While some felt like a proper challenge (Pursuer, dragonslayer or ancient dragon), some of them were so easy that i would label them as unmemorable (covetous demon, dragon rider, last giant).
Some bossfights have some unique features and play a bit different (think amongst the lines of wolnir and curse rotted tree in DS3).
For example: The executioner chariot boss in DS2 is running circles in a narrow corridor trying to run you over. luckily there are safe spots were you can hide. But at the same time skeletons keep spawning and make life miserable. without spoiling it, there are multiple ways to survive and defeat the boss. it wasnt very hard, but it was a cool fight (not in the last place because the music for this fight is amongst the best of the game).

Something i also like is that things you do in an area might influence the difficultie of a bosssfight. not really a feature, but there were some fun interactions that will change the boss-arena's here and there...usually resulting in an easier bossfight.

Some other changes that are unique to DS2;

Enemies will stop spawning after you killed them X times (won't even respawn after resting at a bonfire). Using a specific item will 'restore the area' respawning all enemies (and even the boss), but at a cost. The difficulty of the area after using this item will permanently be at NG+ level.

new stat: adaptability; granting poise, all-res and influences invulnarability frames while rolling and the speed at which you use consumables (including estus). other stats will look familiar.

new game + will reward you with a different boss-soul on some boss-kills. granting acces to spells/weapons unique to NG+

Many armor pieces in DS2 have extra effects on them (more souls on kill, less falling damage, raise equipment load or a certain stat or refresh spell-uses). While DS1 and 3 had this as well, DS2 has many more armors with special effects.

i could go on for a while, but bottom-line: its really good... play it :)
it might be the worst Dark souls game, its still one of the best games ever made
screw nuance :)


Thanks for the time and effort on the response man! Your reply has in itself gotten me hooked. I'll buy the Scholar version as you suggested, as DLC has made for some of the more memorable moments in my play through of the other games. Ringed City was such a cool new area and was hard as nails (which I like) and also featured some of my favourite bosses (Demon Prince and Gael). The Artorias DLC was also a masterpiece because... Artorias, need I say more? The new mechanics and locations you mentioned also seem interesting and I'm always happy to try out something new. From what you’ve said NG + also seems more rewarding and innovative here, so can’t wait to experience that! From the sounds of it I'll be spending a lot of time replaying the game while learning about the lore/theories and also trying out new builds, and of course, learning to “git gud” which is something I always loved to do in the previous Souls games.

PR0T0MIZE

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:29 am
Souls: 75.00
Posts: 3
Reputation: 0
#9
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:Yes.
It’s a great game. If it was the only DS game ever made, there would be no comparison. And any complaints would be the same complaints that the series gets with every installment anyway.

If DS has become your favorite series, you would be robbing yourself of a great experience by not getting DS2.

If possible (Idk your available platforms) you should also play Demon Souls and Bloodbourne at least once. Unfortunately, these are PS exclusive (as I’m sure you probably know).

In retrospect, I only consider 3 a slightly better game than 2. More so because it was the same people behind it so it felt more like a upgraded (and lore updated) version of 1. Most of it was just a matter of subtle design that is signature to the M-crew, and mostly absent in 2. It’s not easy to describe. I could spent pages trying to nail it and still not.

2 has a different vibe. It is arguably a darker game, however they didn’t handle the flame/dark lore so well. A lot of it cheesy in 2. Mainly a certain King regurgitating what we already knew from 1, to the point of redundancy.

However. If you like making several characters and specific builds (an altoholic like me), 2 is where it’s at.
It is overflowing with awesome weapons and some really cool gear for fashion Souls.

And if you make hybrids, it’s great for that. Hybrids are limited in the other games. But certain weapons + infusing makes many viable hybrid options that aren’t gimp vs pure builds.

And power stance Greatswords.
Yes.
Do it.
And laugh your *** off after killing bosses in 2 swings.


Thanks for the response! And yes I am a major fan of experimenting with new builds, I’m now going to definitely get the game, along with its DLC. Truth be told I’m actually beginning to hate myself for not getting the game earlier, as it is a Souls game after all.

Bloodborne is the sole reason for why I bought a PS4, which is currently being delivered as I’ve posted this, I couldn’t reject that game after seeing gameplay and hearing the positive reviews about it.

As for Demon Souls... that will come last. I haven’t really heard a lot from the game other than it’s hard and was the first Souls game made. Once again though I’ll probably hate myself for not getting it sooner rather than later... lol.
Avatar

qeter

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:44 pm
Souls: 80.00
Bank: 6,724.00
Posts: 1321
Reputation: 32
Wiki Edits: 5
#10
demon souls is a very weird game. some of its sensibilities could probably be traced back to early 2000s platformers. their are several "worlds" with 4 distinct "sub-stages" that only have one bonfire and few shortcuts. it's perhaps most valuable as a practical history lesson on the evolution of game design, i'd definitely recommend it if you already own a ps3 but it's not as "complete" an experience as its successors.
1