Dedicated to digging into the game's lore. Bring your thinking caps.
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dn1nd

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#11
I Was Talking About This In Another Thread And Felt Like Adding This Observation Here. With Fire Causing Disparity, Gwyn's Seal Of Fire On Early Man Also Carried That Disparity Over To The Dark, Forcibly Linking Them More Than They Were. I Wonder How The Undead Would Have Been Without This Seal of Fire. I Bet It Would Have Been More Like the Hollows We Saw in The Intro Of DS1.

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lordherpie

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#12
dn1nd wrote:I Was Talking About This In Another Thread And Felt Like Adding This Observation Here. With Fire Causing Disparity, Gwyn's Seal Of Fire On Early Man Also Carried That Disparity Over To The Dark, Forcibly Linking Them More Than They Were. I Wonder How The Undead Would Have Been Without This Seal of Fire. I Bet It Would Have Been More Like the Hollows We Saw in The Intro Of DS1.


that is quite interesting, it could possibly create a very interesting scenario:

if assuming that dark is inversely proportional to light (and in my hypothesis also to life and death, and pretty much everything); then placing this seal would prevent the natural course of events. as the hollowing of the population might have been the primary source dark growing to balance the decreasing of the other powers.

So after placing the seal, other sources of darkness might have started to ooze/spread/generate much more of it to make up for the loss of hollowing humans as a source of dark?

Im not sure, but could this be basis for an alternative theory about manus and the abyss?
are there more creatures of dark that lack the sigil of gwynn that went mad with darkness at the time?

more on topic;

if the darkness contued spreading via other routes, the fire would possibly fade without slowdown, and with it, gwynns seal.. and with that, hollowing would commence again... going faster as the fire fades. if this all is true, alternative sources would normalize as well as fire faded further.
this might be a bit too much speculation, but would it fit?

To clarify this messy thinking:

Could it have happened as follows with what we know about the abyss and chronology;

- Dark spreads through humanity / flame fades / power of the lords declines (in relation to eachother)
- gwyn contains the dark via his seal
- kaathe has people of oolacile unearth an alternative source of dark (manus)
- as the sole source of darkness (not contained by the seal) darkness spreads extremely fast via this person and creates the abyss.
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dn1nd

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#13
Kaathe Was The First To Hint At This Seal In DS1.

Ahh... If you wish, I shall grant the art of Lifedrain, the legendary power of the Dark Lord. It can preserve your humanity while Undead, and cast off the shackles placed upon your brethren.

Aldia Also References Or Hints At This Seal.

Peace grants men the illusion of life.
Shackled by falsehoods, they yearn for love, unaware of its grand illusion.
Until, the curse touches their flesh.
We are bound by this yoke.
As true as the Dark that churns within men.
All men trust fully the illusion of life.
But is this so wrong?
A construction, a facade, and yet...
A world full of warmth and resplendence.
Young Hollow, are you intent on shattering the yoke, spoiling this wonderful falsehood?


Also Don't Forget Midir Is In The Ringed City Eating Any Dark That Might Escape.

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DivineFlask

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#14
Hey, just thought I'd comment on some things.

"I mean; the lords happen to end up with exactly the set of powers that is needed to kill the dragons. gwyn strips the scales with lightning, nito unleashes death and decease, and the witch burns their homes... a bit to convenient for me."

Pure speculation but I don't think this is how it works. I believe souls are essentially pure energy/life force incarnate that can be shaped towards the users will/personality. For example, if the Witch had found the "light" soul I don't think she'd be shooting lightning bolts out of her ***. I think they all found the same raw soul/fire/energy and shaped it to their will. I think this makes sense given that the player character can spend his souls on any set of given attributes. There's no "strength" souls and "intelligence" souls. Just souls.

As for the serpents motivations, I guess we will now never know everything so I'll stick to what we do know. They are symbols of avarice based on their rings. They are known for devouring beings that are perceived to be stronger than them. For a long time I believed this was due to feelings of insecurity about being imperfect dragons, somewhat similar to Seath in a way. I'm now not sure. In Dark Souls, there is a recurring theme of families looking after each other regardless of their flaws. Gwyn and Gwyndolin, Lothric and Lorian, The Witch and Ceaseless Discharge. There's also NPCs like the onion knights in DKS or the Blacksmith and his daughter in DK2, families almost always look out for each other. I now wonder if perhaps the Serpents respected the Dragons in a similar way.

Something I've never really questioned is what role they played in the great war. It now occurs to me that perhaps those six or eight serpents in the Dark Lord ending might be all there is left and that there was once a time when they were a full race like the dragons. Perhaps they didn't fight in the war but the great fire storms and Nito's miasma may have slaughtered them all the same.

There's something about their very nature that I want to discuss. Kaathe consumes humanity or "the dark soul" but it doesn't seem to change him. No other being can be exposed to that much dark without being corrupted by it so from this I take it to mean that the Serpents are still similar to the Ever Lasting Dragons in some ways. They are immune to disparity, heat/cold, life/death doesn't bother them. They can live forever seemingly in any condition. They are creatures that really have nothing to gain from existence and yet they are the symbol of avarice and want.

So what could they want? Perhaps one answer is revenge. If they did feel like the family of the dragons then the complete annihilation of their race and home is more than enough reason to want to do the same to those that inflicted it upon you. We now know that the undead played a significant role in the war as well. Kaathe follows the dark and unleashes it upon humanity and the gods whenever he sees the opportunity. Frampt seeks kings and literally convinces them to kill themselves or hide away. It wouldn't surprise me if Frampt had something to do with the Nameless King being exiled as well.

Ultimately I think the only thing we can trust is their rings. That they benefit from the death of others and it is their primary desire. What fuels that need to consume and overcome all others can only be speculated at. By the end of DK3 they may have gotten what they wanted though, a world of ash and ruin, with the last remnants of life fleeing inside a painting, if only we knew whether they were still alive to see it.
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