Discuss the latest Dark Souls Title!
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SaltLakeAtrocity

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#21
Jnaejnae wrote:I am ok with a boss being less predictable, but it matters alot when the rest of the game doesnt compliment that choice. The way the strict no cancelling input method was put in, it doesnt allow much reaction or improvisation. If I cant predict what attack the boss will use, or have the ability to react reliably when I find out, its not good. I understand maybe they thought they would try to throw the fans a curve ball with this game, but really this combination of design choices arent seen in popular games because it is just bad game design. Any form of media can only last in a good state, if it pleases the fans and creates new ones. If the next new mario game reduced air controls and made jump heights vary randomly, Im sure that would "counter" how mario fans got used to playing.


It could be argued that attack cancellations were most likely removed because of pvp balance issues.

But that aside, I don't think that inability in and of itself objectively constitutes bad game design—and certainly not in the context of DS3 because dozens of people have consistently cleared the game without taking a single hit from any boss whatsoever. Even I, who won't ever claim to be outlandishly skilled or anything, have killed most of the game's bosses at least one time without taking a single hit. I'm not saying this to brag or put you down in anyway (and would hope that that was evident) but as proof that the game has predictability and reactivity to it—such feats that would literally be impossible if the game was as you're describing it.

My best guess is that you're trying to wager way too many attacks in the boss's vulnerable windows. I tried to read back into the discussion to figure out what weapon you were using but couldn't find where or if it was mentioned. Most bosses only leave themselves vulnerable for one, two, and sometimes three consecutive fast hits at a time—or one slow hit at a time.

Furthermore, stamina management is a huge deal. If you attack so many times that you're bar is hitting zero, you're going to have a bad time. The bar can and does go into the negatives before it starts regenerating again, so keeping it at least partially full is a must—and always leave enough stamina to roll twice after any attack.
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goodcat

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#22
Jnaejnae wrote:
SaltLakeAtrocity wrote:
Jnaejnae wrote:I am ok with a boss being less predictable, but it matters alot when the rest of the game doesnt compliment that choice. The way the strict no cancelling input method was put in, it doesnt allow much reaction or improvisation. If I cant predict what attack the boss will use, or have the ability to react reliably when I find out, its not good.


I agree. To compare it to its brother series, Bloodborne, which I am having fun with more, I notice that the combination of disallowance to reaction with the lack of 'anticipation' and 'exaggeration' in the (in this case) boss attack animations makes the fight more annoying than in Bloodborne. Although it is true that there are people who now can ace a boss without taking a single slap after completely learned their behaviors. But this way makes the game learning curve being too steep (as I personally and OP experience) and rather irritating.
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olavrell

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#23
One thing worth noting here, you're complaining about the readability of the first bosses attacks, after it's transformation. Which can be hard at first, but there's definitely a set pattern in there. There's no other boss in the game that has a similar aspect to it, and all the other bosses in the game are easier to read, so I doubt you'll have similar issues further down the line.
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Jnaejnae

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#24
This is a follow-up to my original post.

In retrospect, most of my issues with the controls were my fault, and here's why. My first mistake was choosing the Herald class, I did so because I like spears. My second mistake was using keyboard and mouse, the game looks optimized for controller. The third mistake is that for some reason I never learned the button to lock-on to enemies. I remember for some reason the game's tutorial messages were showing controller icons, but it's still my fault for not looking up the controls.

Now you probably put together why my first experience with Dark Souls III was miserable. I was trying to aim precise spear jabs only using WASD alone. I distinctly remember missing more often than hitting attacks, excruciating. I'm generally good at videogames, I think the reason I wasn't suspicious of the atrocious aiming experience was because of the game's reputation of being difficult. I guess for experienced players you can play how I did as a challenge (spears only weapon, keyboard and mouse, no focus).

Looking back, my critique of the lack of attack cancelling is probably not sensible because I recognize now that it's integral to the game's design. However, I did mention in my post that it was annoying how attack inputs were buffered even when I got knocked down, I can't remember if this is true or not, but if it is then that is a critique I will uphold.

It seems I mistook the complex pattern of the first boss to be random, and didn't really put much effort into trying to learn the patterns, but instead trying to rely on my reflexes like I would in most other games. This was also a mistake on my part. I still believe that the goop form just has really low readability, making it harder to recognize attack patterns, but the camera problems I talked about would have probably been lesser if I knew about the lock-on mechanic, I do remember how when up close my camera just wouldn't show much of the boss at all.

I actually remember my first Dark Souls experience really vividly, and I remember bad experiences I left out of my original critique. There is a guy in rags wielding what looks to be a Katana, he's in front of some door in the same area as the undead before the first boss. I had a lot of trouble with him, most of my fights I would miss my spear attacks, then get combo'd to death. Eventually he just sort of fell off the map. I was really confused because I got no key and the door he was guarding wouldn't open. I felt like he was a big waste of time and felt really annoyed at the time.

After I beat the first boss and got to Firelink shrine, I got very lost. Mainly because I didn't understand that bonfires could be used to warp to a new area, so I was exploring every single inch of the starting area with no feeling of progression. I didn't figure out the bonfire travel thing, so I just quit the game and that was it. I refunded the game even though I was a little over my 2 hour mark.

Now despite all of my errors, the original post scrutinizing the game here was met with very civil responses, and I'm very surprised even now how understanding people were here. When I made the post back then the responses gave me the impression that Dark Souls community is the most emotionally mature fan-base. So despite my terrible impression of the game, I had a good one of it's community. Yes the original post was made a long time ago, it was the only post I ever made, and I can't find the forum rules so hopefully I'm not breaking any by responding to it in 2020. Again, huge thanks for the responses. It seemed a lot of people agreed with me, which is weird seeing it now knowing that I was severely handicapping myself with my own errors.

So after these realizations, am I now a Dark Souls fan? Unfortunately not, but I've come to a better understanding as to why Dark Souls games aren't my type of game. I am not someone who gains satisfaction from overcoming challenges. It's just an unusual personality quirk of mine, I don't enjoy learning instruments, competing of any sort, or gaining anything through work or practice. What do I enjoy? I'm much more comfortable in games that give me creative problem-solving. Games like Zelda BOTW that are less challenging but way more friendly to experimentation and out-of-the-box thinking are things that make me happy. It's very satisfying to see my imagination enacted directly onto worlds. I am a dream-enthusiast, as a result I focus a lot on subconscious thinking, so I have a habit of avoiding things with dark or horror themes, I am much more in my element in whimsical positive innocent worlds.

I am very much interested in game design, and the things I learned let me have respect for the Dark Souls franchise and how it was created not just to be difficult, but also to realize a creative vision of a dark depressing world that teaches players to overcome the seemingly impossible threats that await. But I've also learned more about myself and understand that this artistic vision is antithetical to my personality in every way. It's not possible for me to enjoy Dark Souls, and I accept that.

I made this post to give closure on something that has been bugging my mind, and to undo the unfair issues I raised about Dark Souls III. Thanks for reading.
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Fexelea

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#25
Well if nothing else kudos for the 4 years later update!
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