Discuss the latest Dark Souls Title!
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Achtpuntzes

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#21
still u dont have to be that high sl/vig.

u cant be invaded by meta guys low sl/upgrade so u dont have to be ready for that. and there is a large low sl based community, maybe a bit smaller then the meta. also you have so much advatages as a host, and even a r1 spamming noob can win their PvP fights.

i just want to show that there is more then meta-land.

i think it's quiet lately. we are about the only regular posters left with 1 or 2 new guys. the series is slowly dying...
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build
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TSMP

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#22
A player won't have that high of a SL in the early game, no. In point of fact, they wouldn't reach all those softcaps until SL120 anyways. Before that, at say SL60 or so, they might only have 27-30 in everything if they were distributing their levels evenly between three or more stats. That being the case... wouldn't you say that you weren't actually disagreeing with anything I'd said? You only advocated an arbitrary stopping point at a lower level, whereas I was only talking about a maximum level. Whatever point the player wants to stop at is ultimately their own choice.

In any case, low-SL invaders will always try to have some advantage over the host, barring the rare few who try to challenge themselves or who intentionally limit themselves so as not to overpower a lone host. Invaders can and will have maxed Estus, tons of levels into Vitality to reduce host/summon attacks down to chip damage, two-handed Str weapons at 40str (for effectively 60str), all that stuff. Low-SL does have its own meta, just like all the other level ranges do. Invaders have all the odds stacked against them in DaS3, technically. But only when we assume both the host and the invader have access to everything already. When the invader has all the game areas unlocked, then they have a significant equipment advantage over the host, if not a skill advantage for being able to do something a new player hasn't had the chance to do yet: beat the game. For example, the difference between Great Fireball and Great Chaos Fire Orb, when invading a host who hasn't even reached the Catacombs yet.

It's metas all the way down, really.

Oh, but I'm not convinced all these "new guys" are really new. Not all of them, at least...

Polyedra

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#23
Achtpuntzes wrote:i just want to show that there is more then meta-land.

That's agreeable.

Achtpuntzes wrote:i think it's quiet lately. we are about the only regular posters left with 1 or 2 new guys. the series is slowly dying...

Yeah, this forum is a wasteland haha ;D
Don't worry though, it is normal for an ageing game to settle into the new pace. Those who like the game will stick around and there will probably be new faces too. I mean, ds1 and 2 has some kind of communities? This one's the last, and imo the best, so it won't die so fast. Neither fear the death of the game because when that happens a new game will be out! From is working on three different titles, and this dude, Miyasaki, who's lead designer, will work on some kind of vampire project is the current theory. That can land on AWESOME for a soulesque game!

TSMP wrote:Oh, but I'm not convinced all these "new guys" are really new. Not all of them, at least...

I'm new, really! *blends into the shadows*

Achtpuntzes

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#24
@ TMSP:
my builds are kinda different. most of them have one high stat or 2 caps. instead of tanking up to be able to survive some hits i just max damage. i have a sl 59 str guy with 60 (!) str (55+str ring), he wields a heavy mace (nice dmg with 60str) but fishing for parries and when i parry i swap to ledo's greathammer for the riposte (need 60str to one hand it) for the one hit riposte kill, without the hornet ring. or pure faith guy, also 59 with 60 faith who just seeks a trade with sunlight talismans Sunlight Spear from close (cant be interrupted) and in most cases that also is a one hit kill. if they seem to know what im up to, i just lightning buff some fast hitting weapon (with 60 faith the lightning/darkmoon buff spell is real strong especially if they low sl so low on lightning defence)

that kind of builds i like. and yes, most are glass canons, but i dont mind to die if i mess up. because if u die u learn. if u block or tank hits, u dont mind getting hit and you dont learn from it.

thats my style.

as for tips to newbees, i think the best one is to never use a blocking shield. then u learn that u get punished when u get hit, so u have to learn NOT to get hit , learn to respec your distance against ANY weapon and then your skills wil improve 10 times faster then if u advice just to reach the caps for your build and go to metaland.

low sl is fun, instead of the standard meta builds everyone has you can make real specific strong unique builds, and if u can get to the level where u Always hit your opponent way more then he hits u. u will have real high win%. because most standard low sl spread their stats way too much (u named 27-30 in 3 stats) so they less then average in everything and dont shine out in one thing like me. so i feel OP and unique and that helps mee keep playing this game for real long time.
Last edited by Achtpuntzes on Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build
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TSMP

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#25
That kind of playstyle sounds cheap and boring, to me. Pressing the instant-win button until you get it, and then the game is over? I prefer the weapon art shields, since they give me more ways to use my weapon (faster than switching to two-handed) and expand what all I can do in a fight, and also don't end the fight before I'm done learning from it. I don't walk out of a class halfway through the lecture, after all.

Do keep in mind, I don't actually play with tanky builds. Not in the context of the level I'm playing at. The majority of my characters are either average or slightly glassy for SL120 builds. In the context of SL60, sure, running around with 40vig would be excessive, but again, that would only be true at SL60. And when have I ever suggested a person makes a SL60 build? If someone is playing through game as it is intended to be played, that is to say when they're making a character purely for PvE and have no desire to engage in PvP whatsoever, then SL60 is about where they'd be just before fighting Aldrich or Yhorm (that's the level you can reach when spending all the souls on levels and weapon upgrades). Stopping at SL60, even while still continuing through the game, that'd be irrelevant for a purely PvE build since SL60 is only relevant as a PvP level range. Pure PvE has no actual level range, you see.

Technically, when talking about PvE, only the softcaps really matter since they tell a player when to stop putting levels into any one stat. For a PvE player, there's no reason to stop at any level, even SL120, since they have no intention of playing with other players (meaning level ranges don't affect them at all). That being the case... wouldn't you agree that the advice you gave is only relevant to PvP, and that information about softcaps would be far more useful to a player who doesn't ever expect to play online?

Shields are a player choice, dodging is a player choice, and so on. I wouldn't ever force my own masochistic playstyle on anyone, and not everyone needs to learn how to dodge everything if that isn't what they want out of the game. Blocking is a viable strategy, and some people prefer the sword-and-board playstyle. It takes a lot of knowledge of stamina management to pull it off without dying, after all, since blocking tends to cost more stamina than dodging does.

Polyedra

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#26
Achtpuntzes wrote:as for tips to newbees, i think the best one is to never use a blocking shield. then u learn that u get punished when u get hit, so u have to learn NOT to get hit , learn to respec your distance against ANY weapon and then your skills wil improve 10 times faster then if u advice just to reach the caps for your build and go to metaland.

There is truth in what you write, but I would never have made it without a shield. You think it is a newbie item, but I am not so sure. I know too little to critique though.

Achtpuntzes

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#27
@ Polyedra:
i play without blocking shield for years in the series now, never missed it in that time.
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build

Polyedra

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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:11 pm
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#28
Achtpuntzes wrote:@ Polyedra:
i play without blocking shield for years in the series now, never missed it in that time.

I use them for bosses I'm troubled with. And I block sometimes in pvp, but I'm unsure exactly when it is beneficial. Some say "never", but I don't believe that. I also shield up against dogs and various enemies. Sure, you can dodge, which is the main method of avoiding damage and critical to master, but blocking is good stuff too.
I don't doubt you dislike them, but I find your grounds to do so dubious. There's no concensus that blocking is bad for pvp, like I feel you insinuate. There is however a discussion on when to use it and to answer that question you need more experience than me.
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#29
Achtpuntzes wrote:low sl is fun, instead of the standard meta builds everyone has you can make real specific strong unique builds, and if u can get to the level where u Always hit your opponent way more then he hits u. u will have real high win%. because most standard low sl spread their stats way too much (u named 27-30 in 3 stats) so they less then average in everything and dont shine out in one thing like me. so i feel OP and unique and that helps mee keep playing this game for real long time.

That's all well and good, and I'd agree. I once had a SL60 character with Murky Longstaff, Great Soul Dregs, 30att and 45int. 1k damage homing spells that are as big as Irithyll Dungeon's narrow hallways? That's just unfair on every possible level. I eventually raised the character to SL120 though, because being OP is boring to me and winning so easily means I'll never improve. That's what I find fun in the game, the constant challenge and need to improve.

The thing is, what you're talking about is making a character from a PvP perspective (i.e. killing players), and has no bearing from a PvE perspective. The reason for all these posts is that I'm trying to point out how the -3 rep you gave, which hid that comment from public view because it had too low rep, was actually entirely relevant advice from a PvE perspective where the player isn't concerned about level ranges, maximum levels, or anything except playing PvE, at which point the only information that really matters to them is how the softcaps work. You'll also note how that post never actually said anything about SL120, despite how you assumed it did.

Now, with all that being said... Would you agree that the post you caused to be hidden actually was good advice for a PvE player who has no interest in invading, being invaded, or PvP at all?

Wvubeerman

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#30
One what is meta-land? Two here is what my Character is like now. Any area I should work on. I have that fire orb and like to use that now. I only play PvE
Last edited by Wvubeerman on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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