Discuss lore and secrets of Dark Souls 3
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BobTheHollow

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#1
So, in Dark Souls 1, in the Dark Lord ending, it is revealed that Frampt was working with Kaathe all along. The primordial serpent says "We are here to serve your highness. Frampt and Kaathe are here to serve your highness." There's no denying it, they be buddies.

The implications are very straight forward and completely game changing. Frampt had been playing the gods all along. It didn't matter which ending you chose, you were always doing what the serpents wanted. In DkS3 the "why" has been explained: they need to keep the First Flame alive till they can find the TRUE Dark Lord, the one who can usurp it (remember that in DkS1 you didn't take it, you just walked away). ... Also to keep the super powerful enemy population under control ...

There have never been two sides to this war. Only pawns.

I've mentioned this in one of my videos and I have never seen it mentioned anywhere else. And now, just as it was then, every time I bring this up somewhere, it's a surprise.

Any thoughts about it?
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dn1nd

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#2
We have had discussions on the serpents before.

I have often suspected the Serpents might be in cahoots with each other.

Some reading for you.

t57803/f90/primordial-serpents-motivation/

t35934/f10/the-eight-primordial-serpents/

t264044/f10/the-lords-were-fooled/

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Nunkuruji

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#3
When it comes to these things, I tend to start with the eastern mythology it's likely rooted in, rather than trying to just think about it from the surface.

This video, is a good example. I haven't watched other things on the channel to see if there is more content of this nature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FZiAi9LDIs

So with that said, some things I've skimmed before and what comes to mind

Snakes in Japanese mythology have dualistic undertones, unlike 'snakes are evil' in western Christianity.
Snakes are considered minor dragons.
Snakes are guardian spirits.
Eight serpents is a significant number, in parallel to Yamata no Orochi
Dualistic tendency to be halves of a whole.

Food for thought


In terms of Kaathe's involvement, I whimsically consider his Dark Wraith mission to essentially be what Gael carries out.
I can see it in your eyes. If you didn't invade, didn't pillage, whatever would you do?
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BobTheHollow

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#4
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

Nunkuruji wrote:In terms of Kaathe's involvement, I whimsically consider his Dark Wraith mission to essentially be what Gael carries out.

That sounds like it could be interesting. Would care to elaborate on it?
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Nunkuruji

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#5
BobTheHollow wrote:Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

Nunkuruji wrote:In terms of Kaathe's involvement, I whimsically consider his Dark Wraith mission to essentially be what Gael carries out.

That sounds like it could be interesting. Would care to elaborate on it?


I think it's accepted that humanity are fragments of the dark soul.
Kaathe gives you the Dark Hand which steals humanity.
You are to go gather and coalesce as much humanity as possible - this is what Gael does, but targeting the pygmy lords who have the largest fragments.

I suppose an interesting question is given how old Gael is, did he ever directly cross paths with Kaathe.
While he's a slave knight, in some sense he also represents the dark lord path path in DS1.
I can see it in your eyes. If you didn't invade, didn't pillage, whatever would you do?
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BobTheHollow

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#6
Nunkuruji wrote:I think it's accepted that humanity are fragments of the dark soul.
Kaathe gives you the Dark Hand which steals humanity.
You are to go gather and coalesce as much humanity as possible - this is what Gael does, but targeting the pygmy lords who have the largest fragments.

That's actually... a very good parallel. Would you mind if I ever cited you in a video?

Given that humanity means power (it raises your defenses, it can heal you, and it can strengthen bonfires), I'd say that Kaathe's reasons for bequeathing the Dark Hand were rather straightforward. Would you agree with that? If not, what do you suppose Kaathe wanted with all that gathered humanity?
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Nunkuruji

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#7
If you want, but I wouldn't say it's an original thought, I'm sure it's crossed older threads at some point, of which you might find more enlightening ideas.

What the serpents ultimate goals are, I have no idea. It's certainly the subject of a lot of threads and speculation, but I've never come across or developed an idea that I was wholly satisfied with.
I can see it in your eyes. If you didn't invade, didn't pillage, whatever would you do?
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BobTheHollow

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#8
I don't mean their overall end goal, just what they want humanities for.

And as far as end goal goes, I think it's purposefully out of reach from our understanding, as part of the game's philosophy. In order to fully learn to appreciate life, one must learn to accept that some things he cannot understand, and that that's ok (extremely simplified version).
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Rakuyo

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#9
I suspect that that is indeed true.

I also suspect that the twin serpents are connected to the recurring "caduceus", and that they represent Orbeck's "twin faces of the dragon".

I have stuff that hints towards that conclusion on several pages:

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/A ... +by+Rakuyo

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/F ... Bloodborne

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/B ... +by+Rakuyo

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/The+Mysteries+of+Cainhurst+Garb+&+Architecture+(Lore)+by+Rakuyo

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/K ... +by+Rakuyo

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/T ... Bloodborne

I know it's a mouthful. Try and "ctrl + F" for Kaathe or Frampt, if you don't already know how to do that.
Those who seek dark, will always find it.