Discuss lore and secrets of Dark Souls 3
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dn1nd

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#11
I see your point, but I still disagree.

I find it strange for Klimt to be the only Archdeacon not in the spot the lore states they would be in. McDonnell is in Irrithyl with Aldrich. We Kill Royce at Aldrich's Casket, so I see No reason for Klimt to leave Rosaria's side if the other 2 haven't left where the lore said they would be.

As for the Man Grub, there are other High Ranking Clerics aside from the Archdeacons. That being the Saints. Klimt happened to be both, which could even be used to support your theory too. But there were other Saint's in DS3 even if they weren't named, we do get a Saint's Talisman near Irina. In Ds2 we get the MIracle from the Grave of Saints. In DS1 we get the Spell from Rhea who should be a saint herself.

One more observation. Klimt is male and most saints were female throughout the series. It makes me wonder if the reason Klimt used Rosaria's Rebirth was to become male.

Medium for casting miracles of the Gods. Ivory talismans are given only to women clerics, and faith greatly affects their effectiveness.

There is a certain frailty to this talisman, which undermines the steadfastness granted by its Skill.



So As I said, I see your point and your logic. I just respectfully disagree.

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#12
dn1nd wrote:So As I said, I see your point and your logic. I just respectfully disagree.

At this point, that's all I could ask for. ^^b
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#13
BobTheHollow wrote:Rakuyo and dn1nd,

I believe that the biggest problem for you to accept my point of view is that there would be no reason for Klimt to be in Irithyll. So, I'd propose the following:

Put aside the corpse's location for a second. Klimt is unaccounted for and there's a dead man-grub with Great Heal on it. Wouldn't Great Heal, being privy to only a select few high ranking clerics, give this man-grub the status associated with the former Archdeacon Klimt? Now, imagine that the corpse is located inside the Cathedral of the Deep. Wouldn't this corpse be a prime candidate for being Klimt himself? I honestly, unbiased believe that the answer to these questions is "yes."

Now, let's put the corpse back in Irithyll. By looking at it your way, I'd be left with the question: "why is there a high ranking man-grub cleric dead in Irithyll?" Since this is in regards to your point of view, then I'd humbly ask that you provide an answer to this question.

In regards to my own stance, I'd first remind you that another Archdeacon from the cathedral made his way back to Irithyll, and that he also met with an untimely demise. He's currently resting at the Water Reserve. And I do hope that all of this is enough to at least make you see the possibility that that corpse belongs to Klimt, because of my second point which, well, is a much larger theory. I do believe Irithyll and Rosaria to be connected. I do not wish to overextend myself, though. So I'm hoping we can make "progress" based only on what I have presented so far.


No, that description has been part of Great Heal since DS1.

http://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Great+Heal

http://darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com/Great+Heal
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#14
Rakuyo wrote:that description has been part of Great Heal since DS1

Yes, it has. Does that mean it's not a reference to the Archdeacons?
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#15
BobTheHollow wrote:
Rakuyo wrote:that description has been part of Great Heal since DS1

Yes, it has. Does that mean it's not a reference to the Archdeacons?


It means the term "selected few" is nothing special.

It has never referred to anything special. Besides that Great Heal's not even that advanced a Miracle.

I think your theory is in the water, but everything's "possible" you know.
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#16
Rakuyo wrote:It means the term "selected few" is nothing special.

It has never referred to anything special. Besides that Great Heal's not even that advanced a Miracle.

I think your theory is in the water, but everything's "possible" you know.

In DkS1, you got it from Rhea of Thorolund and she was something special (and it was her most expensive miracle, alongside Wrath of the Gods).

In DkS2, it wasn't available through clerics, you had to loot it from tombs of saints past or get it from a Pardoner, a unique figure with unique powers, wearing attire associated with "a person of great authority" (and it was his most expensive miracle).

In DkS3, you can't get it from any kind of cleric. Irina is anxious to teach you but she can't. Even if you find both Lothric and Carim's Divine Tomes, they don't have this miracle. The miracles not present in these tomes are all "godlike," outlandish, or lost in time. Except for this one, this one is known by clerics, but only a select few. I'd say that "a select few" carries some meaning. Plus, it's the most advanced heal, how is it not an advanced miracle? Its faith requirement is the threshold between mortal and "godlike" miracles (and I do hope that the term "godlike" can be easily understood in this context).

And, if I'm wrong, then who's that man-grub? Why is there a dead man-grub in Irithyll? Like I said, I think Rosaria is directly connected to Irithyll, but that's a much larger theory, I don't think it belongs in this particular thread. But what's your explanation?
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#17
BobTheHollow wrote:
Rakuyo wrote:It means the term "selected few" is nothing special.

It has never referred to anything special. Besides that Great Heal's not even that advanced a Miracle.

I think your theory is in the water, but everything's "possible" you know.

In DkS1, you got it from Rhea of Thorolund and she was something special (and it was her most expensive miracle, alongside Wrath of the Gods).

In DkS2, it wasn't available through clerics, you had to loot it from tombs of saints past or get it from a Pardoner, a unique figure with unique powers, wearing attire associated with "a person of great authority" (and it was his most expensive miracle).

In DkS3, you can't get it from any kind of cleric. Irina is anxious to teach you but she can't. Even if you find both Lothric and Carim's Divine Tomes, they don't have this miracle. The miracles not present in these tomes are all "godlike," outlandish, or lost in time. Except for this one, this one is known by clerics, but only a select few. I'd say that "a select few" carries some meaning. Plus, it's the most advanced heal, how is it not an advanced miracle? Its faith requirement is the threshold between mortal and "godlike" miracles (and I do hope that the term "godlike" can be easily understood in this context).

And, if I'm wrong, then who's that man-grub? Why is there a dead man-grub in Irithyll? Like I said, I think Rosaria is directly connected to Irithyll, but that's a much larger theory, I don't think it belongs in this particular thread. But what's your explanation?


A spell sold along with a dozen others, just like it, by a merchant, is nothing special.

Chaos Fireball is a special spell because there's a whole procedure towards getting it.

Sunlight Blade is a special spell because it has a special description and is found behind a boss.

The Faith requirement for Great Heal is 25, which marks it as a medium level spell, as does its performance.

Then who's that man-grub?

I can think we can safely say that it is a Man-Grub.

I don't think we can safely say much more about it.
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#18
Rakuyo wrote:A spell sold along with a dozen others, just like it, by a merchant, is nothing special.

If a guy standing in the middle of the street with a "the end is nigh" board sells you a holy book, and the pope himself sells you a holy book, the book sold to you by the pope is something special because the merchant who sold it to you is something special. In DkS1 it was sold by Rhea, not Petrus. In DkS2 it was sold by Cromwell, not Licia. In DkS3 it isn't sold at all. And a merchant selling eggs can have one at $1 and another at $1000. You can say that the $1 egg isn't anything special but the $1000 egg sure as hell is.

Rakuyo wrote:Chaos Fireball is a special spell because there's a whole procedure towards getting it.

Some exploration is necessary to get Great Heal in all three games. In DkS1 it's even necessary to rescue Rhea first.

Rakuyo wrote:Sunlight Blade is a special spell because it has a special description and is found behind a boss.

See above.

Rakuyo wrote:The Faith requirement for Great Heal is 25, which marks it as a medium level spell, as does its performance.

The "godlike" distinction was obviously not clear enough. 25 faith is a medium requirement if you take in consideration miracles that aren't even supposed to be known to us. Miracles of those who follow in the footsteps of the firstborn. Miracles transposed from the souls of gods themselves. But if you put it in the context of the church, that is a really high requirement. And as far as performance goes, "it's the most advanced heal, how is it not an advanced miracle?" You're also ignoring the fact/argument that it isn't present in any divine tomes, despite being known to the church.

Rakuyo wrote:Then who's that man-grub?

I can think we can safely say that it is a Man-Grub.

I don't think we can safely say much more about it.

The EXACT same argument can be used with the man-grub on Rosaria's lap. The difference being that if you choose the one on her lap to be Klimt, you're ignoring the one in the water, and you're leaving questions unanswered. The Rosaria/Irithyll connection thing I've mentioned actually addresses that man-grub on her lap, but even if it didn't, that's a man-grub alongside a whole bunch of man-grubs, standing exactly where you'd expect a man-grub to be. Not a lot of explaining required. If you don't go out of your way to figure it out, it's not even a pertinent question. But they have purposefully placed a dead man-grub holding this very specific miracle in a place where he sure as hell wasn't expected to be. You have to admit, if you're into lore hunting, that's a much much more pertinent question that needs to be answered.
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#19
BobTheHollow wrote:
Rakuyo wrote:A spell sold along with a dozen others, just like it, by a merchant, is nothing special.

If a guy standing in the middle of the street with a "the end is nigh" board sells you a holy book, and the pope himself sells you a holy book, the book sold to you by the pope is something special because the merchant who sold it to you is something special. In DkS1 it was sold by Rhea, not Petrus. In DkS2 it was sold by Cromwell, not Licia. In DkS3 it isn't sold at all. And a merchant selling eggs can have one at $1 and another at $1000. You can say that the $1 egg isn't anything special but the $1000 egg sure as hell is.

Rakuyo wrote:Chaos Fireball is a special spell because there's a whole procedure towards getting it.

Some exploration is necessary to get Great Heal in all three games. In DkS1 it's even necessary to rescue Rhea first.

Rakuyo wrote:Sunlight Blade is a special spell because it has a special description and is found behind a boss.

See above.

Ya know, I don't think Rhea of Thorolund was all that important either.
Rakuyo wrote:The Faith requirement for Great Heal is 25, which marks it as a medium level spell, as does its performance.

The "godlike" distinction was obviously not clear enough. 25 faith is a medium requirement if you take in consideration miracles that aren't even supposed to be known to us. Miracles of those who follow in the footsteps of the firstborn. Miracles transposed from the souls of gods themselves. But if you put it in the context of the church, that is a really high requirement. And as far as performance goes, "it's the most advanced heal, how is it not an advanced miracle?" You're also ignoring the fact/argument that it isn't present in any divine tomes, despite being known to the church.

Rakuyo wrote:Then who's that man-grub?

I can think we can safely say that it is a Man-Grub.

I don't think we can safely say much more about it.

The EXACT same argument can be used with the man-grub on Rosaria's lap. The difference being that if you choose the one on her lap to be Klimt, you're ignoring the one in the water, and you're leaving questions unanswered. The Rosaria/Irithyll connection thing I've mentioned actually addresses that man-grub on her lap, but even if it didn't, that's a man-grub alongside a whole bunch of man-grubs, standing exactly where you'd expect a man-grub to be. Not a lot of explaining required. If you don't go out of your way to figure it out, it's not even a pertinent question. But they have purposefully placed a dead man-grub holding this very specific miracle in a place where he sure as hell wasn't expected to be. You have to admit, if you're into lore hunting, that's a much much more pertinent question that needs to be answered.


Ya know, I don't think Rhea of Thorolund was all that important either.
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#20
The children of Rosaria. She has one with her in her bed. She also says something, muffled the whole time you're killing them outside her door. You have to turn the sound up, I can't make out what presactly she says, but that's not Patches' voice. (Id recognize that anywhere.) Even after you kill the nutral one at the end of the hall, I don't see anyone else that it could be, and it doesn't sound approving while you slaughter them.

I'm pretty sure she's breeding them. I'm not sure why, but there's several Dragon/Human hybrid experiments in this one. Maybe one of those?
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