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Forum_Pirate

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#2801
What positive changes? Attempting to take away healthcare from millions of poor and old people? (which, yes, will kill thousands of people every year.)
Attempting to gut the restrictions that prevent ISPs censoring the internet?
Gutting coal regulations that prevent them polluting water, which will kill people?
Deregulating the banks that caused the 2008 crash?

You mean like this riot?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/u ... ts-crimes/
and this riot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skd7c6Xbgro
and this riot
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ural-riot/
and these death threats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWbXDZXlkY

Also, that shakespear in the park thing is BS. 1: It's Jeleius Cesar, which is a warning *against* political violence. 2: They did it with Obama too.

The ban has been slapped down 3 seperate times now because even after trumps laywers spent months arguing it's not a muslim ban, trump goes and calls it a ban again anyways. Nobody guilty of attempting terror attack in the US over the last like 10 years has been from any of the countries on the list.

I know the craziness of the Trump election suddenly brought a lot of people into politics, including me, but this isn't actually new.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
- George W. Bush
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Elhanan

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#2802
Don't know about all the poor elderly folks out there, but I have hope that my own experience is improving (and I fit into both groups). And it was Obama's admin that wished to place internet restrictions; check the history. Cannot speak well as to the banks, but as I mentioned before, am all for the use of coal and against changes in the EPA and Govt to lift restrictions that strangle 'poor elderly' folks.

FYI - the riots mentioned in that 3rd Breitbart link are from the left; read the article. And the 9th Court has been legislating from the bench, and am hoping that they will be dismantled while Trump remains in office for another term.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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Lich180

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#2803
Elhanan wrote:Don't know about all the poor elderly folks out there, but I have hope that my own experience is improving (and I fit into both groups). And it was Obama's admin that wished to place internet restrictions; check the history. Cannot speak well as to the banks, but as I mentioned before, am all for the use of coal and against changes in the EPA and Govt to lift restrictions that strangle 'poor elderly' folks.

FYI - the riots mentioned in that 3rd Breitbart link are from the left; read the article. And the 9th Court has been legislating from the bench, and am hoping that they will be dismantled while Trump remains in office for another term.


Healthcare does NOT need to be part of the government. Government medical care in the US is terrible, just look at the VA. "Taking away healthcare" is only taking the more expensive, mandatory government health care option, most of those are people who don't want health insurance for whatever reason, or are too young to get it in the first place. It also frees people to go find their own health care that lets them choose their own doctor (which Obamacare didn't let you do), has lower premiums and copays (which, due to Obamacare had companies raising rates) and able to not be fined out the *** for not having insurance they DON'T WANT. There is ZERO conclusive evidence that "removing" healthcare will kill people.

Companies may try to abuse their consumers, but given the rise of social media, I see that any company that engages in bad practices will get roasted on a spit and lose business overall if they pollute, over charge, or do anything untoward. Companies have already pledged to maintain (and INCREASE) their emissions and reduce them further, they just don't get a government subsidy check (which I've seen promising businesses DIE because of), and the fact that the economy is gaining died l speed at a rapid pace seems to indicate that things are, surprise, doing well for once.

Oh, not to mention the literal witch hunt the left is going through, trying to find anything on Trump they can, inciting ACTUAL death and injuries, and committing some serious acts of violence just because their candidate lost a FAIR election. Russia hasn't worked, Russia won't work, Russia was a non-issue in the election, the current "investigation" is run by the guy who recommended Comey be fired, etc. I can keep going.

/rant

I've done my research, I've formed my opinions and have them backed up by evidence - scientific, political and economical, and until I see actual hard evidence that Trump is a Russia puppet, a lack of healthcare is killing people, etc, I'll stick with who and what is actually killing people - extreme Muslims, some of whom are refugees, and extreme leftists.
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githcheater

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#2804
The 2008 crash was the republican's fault?

Sounds like MoveOn.org tripe ...

A simple fact check demonstrates this is not the case, and puts a similar amount of responsibility on the democrats ...

There was a lot of blame to go around and much of it had little to do with politics.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-ca ... ic-crisis/
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Lich180

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#2805
Also, I've had people here in the United States tell me how awesome Germany's system is. However, I learned a little something about Germany's system in the last couple of years. Their system used to be awesome, but then they realized they couldn't pay for it. So, they started reducing the number of services they offered, while maintaining the same level of taxation. People started complaining, so they encouraged people to purchase supplemental private plans to cover the things that once used to be covered by the same amount of taxes they are still now paying.

Additionally, on the left-leaning NPR, I heard a story about a year ago or so about the German system regarding homes for the elderly. Because the German system is tax-funded, there is a little incentive for employees to provide a high quality of care. So, the quality sucks. While people are still paying the same amount of taxes that they are currently paying to use the system that is in place, many children of these elderly individuals pay extra to private homes for the elderly in POLAND because there is a much higher quality of care. They're still paying taxes in Germany, but they're paying additional funds for private care in Poland. Let that sink in.

I work with some Germans who were incredibly surprised when they came to the United States and learned that we have so few taxes. "Few taxes"?! How can that be?! Germans are taxed for every little thing. They are taxed to go to church – they don't pay tithing. They are taxed for owning a television – they don't donate to public broadcasting, and they still have to suffer through commercials from sponsors!

Like I said, when they first came here, they were surprised at how anything was funded without taxation. But, they realized that people aren't as greedy as the leftist rhetoric says they are. People pay for the things they use, when they can afford it. If they can't afford it, someone else is footing the bill voluntarily. If they can afford to pay more than the average person, they often do that, too.


Found on Facebook, this is how things get paid through the government, and everything ends up being crap.
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IgnusKnavery

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Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:00 pm
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#2806
Forum_Pirate wrote:What positive changes? Attempting to take away healthcare from millions of poor and old people? (which, yes, will kill thousands of people every year.)
Attempting to gut the restrictions that prevent ISPs censoring the internet?
Gutting coal regulations that prevent them polluting water, which will kill people?
Deregulating the banks that caused the 2008 crash?

You mean like this riot?
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27738018/ns/u ... ts-crimes/
and this riot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skd7c6Xbgro
and this riot
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ural-riot/
and these death threats
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWbXDZXlkY

Also, that shakespear in the park thing is BS. 1: It's Jeleius Cesar, which is a warning *against* political violence. 2: They did it with Obama too.

The ban has been slapped down 3 seperate times now because even after trumps laywers spent months arguing it's not a muslim ban, trump goes and calls it a ban again anyways. Nobody guilty of attempting terror attack in the US over the last like 10 years has been from any of the countries on the list.

I know the craziness of the Trump election suddenly brought a lot of people into politics, including me, but this isn't actually new.


Yea people in this thread say that Trump is doing good for this country. Here's a short list to re-iterate:

1.) Deregulation and defunding of the EPA
2.) Undermined international cooperation on climate change
3.) Muslim ban
4.) Banking deregulations - (e.g. Dodd-Frank)
5.) Greenlit the Dakota and Keystone pipelines
6.) Re-instated the anti-abortion global gag-rule
7.) Signed an executive order voiding President Obama’s mortgage cost reduction for new home buyers
8.) The wall
9.) Dismantle affordable care act in favor of more expensive healthcare - tax breaks for the rich
10.) Net neutrality - Trump's new target
11.) Return of coal jobs (a big lie)

That's what I can think of right now. Yeah... Great for the country... Suuure.
Last edited by IgnusKnavery on Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
“I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
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IgnusKnavery

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#2807
githcheater wrote:The 2008 crash was the republican's fault?

Sounds like MoveOn.org tripe ...

A simple fact check demonstrates this is not the case, and puts a similar amount of responsibility on the democrats ...

There was a lot of blame to go around and much of it had little to do with politics.

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/10/who-ca ... ic-crisis/


This is true. The crash was due to greedy bankers and had very little to do with politics.
“I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
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IgnusKnavery

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#2808
Lich180 wrote:Oh, not to mention the literal witch hunt the left is going through, trying to find anything on Trump they can, inciting ACTUAL death and injuries, and committing some serious acts of violence just because their candidate lost a FAIR election. Russia hasn't worked, Russia won't work, Russia was a non-issue in the election, the current "investigation" is run by the guy who recommended Comey be fired, etc. I can keep going.


This is such ******* argument. The guy was a crackpot. It doesn't matter whether he was a Democrat or Republican. And yes, there was violence by Republicans. Do you remember Trump's campaign or are you choosing not to remember or admit the fact that he incited violence during his rallies.

Going on a shooting spree is horrible, but making this political and stating that Democrats are resorting to murder pisses me off. Knock that **** off. It sounds like something Sean Hannity or that other a-hole, Rush Limbaugh, would say. And I'm sure you're better than those two.
“I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours.”
― Hunter S. Thompson
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Elhanan

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#2809
As I recall, the fights at Trump rallies turned out to be financed hires from the Left, and some were shipped to the various rallies.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... hey-hire-/

As for Democrats instigating and supporting violence, one could go to Berkeley college, or simply listen to their own words:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... nasty-yet/

Yep; getting rid of piles of mindless regulations, leaving the Paris Accords, restarting the pipelines, restarting coal, and building the Wall are a good thing, IMO. As for the propaganda of a Muslim ban, and painting Trump as some anti-poor Crusader; lies built on fractional truths, out of context labels, and possible head trauma.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
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Forum_Pirate

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#2810
Lich180 wrote:
Elhanan wrote:Don't know about all the poor elderly folks out there, but I have hope that my own experience is improving (and I fit into both groups). And it was Obama's admin that wished to place internet restrictions; check the history. Cannot speak well as to the banks, but as I mentioned before, am all for the use of coal and against changes in the EPA and Govt to lift restrictions that strangle 'poor elderly' folks.

FYI - the riots mentioned in that 3rd Breitbart link are from the left; read the article. And the 9th Court has been legislating from the bench, and am hoping that they will be dismantled while Trump remains in office for another term.


Healthcare does NOT need to be part of the government. Government medical care in the US is terrible, just look at the VA. "Taking away healthcare" is only taking the more expensive, mandatory government health care option, most of those are people who don't want health insurance for whatever reason, or are too young to get it in the first place. It also frees people to go find their own health care that lets them choose their own doctor (which Obamacare didn't let you do), has lower premiums and copays (which, due to Obamacare had companies raising rates) and able to not be fined out the *** for not having insurance they DON'T WANT. There is ZERO conclusive evidence that "removing" healthcare will kill people.

Companies may try to abuse their consumers, but given the rise of social media, I see that any company that engages in bad practices will get roasted on a spit and lose business overall if they pollute, over charge, or do anything untoward. Companies have already pledged to maintain (and INCREASE) their emissions and reduce them further, they just don't get a government subsidy check (which I've seen promising businesses DIE because of), and the fact that the economy is gaining died l speed at a rapid pace seems to indicate that things are, surprise, doing well for once.

Oh, not to mention the literal witch hunt the left is going through, trying to find anything on Trump they can, inciting ACTUAL death and injuries, and committing some serious acts of violence just because their candidate lost a FAIR election. Russia hasn't worked, Russia won't work, Russia was a non-issue in the election, the current "investigation" is run by the guy who recommended Comey be fired, etc. I can keep going.

/rant

I've done my research, I've formed my opinions and have them backed up by evidence - scientific, political and economical, and until I see actual hard evidence that Trump is a Russia puppet, a lack of healthcare is killing people, etc, I'll stick with who and what is actually killing people - extreme Muslims, some of whom are refugees, and extreme leftists.


Government healthcare is not more expensive, It's actually cheaper, and results in better outcomes. The US spends double what other countries do on healthcare
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SHA
and gets among the worst outcomes for developed nations
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-he ... h-systems/

Also, for the poor and/or elderly people benefiting from the medicaid expansion and medicare that they're trying to cut, COST IS NOT A FACTOR. It does not matter what health insurance costs me per year, I can't afford it. I work full time. I made ~19k last year. Rent is 9600 a year. Food (with very little/no junk food or "organic" foods) is 5000 per year. Electricity/Water is 2400 per year. Car insurance, which I don't have the luxery of not having, is 1200. I have 0 left. Lets just assume that I do have the luxery of skipping car insurance though. That leaves me with 1200 for Insurance, toilet paper, internet, soap, cloths, ect.

Using modern figures, *just* the premiums would run me $900 per year, (down to $300 now) and that's not counting the 40% of all medical expenses that I have to pay, meaning if anything actually happened to me I wouldn't be able to afford it.

Lest you think this problem was caused by the ACA or the employer mandate of the 90s, the average cost of healthcare per capita (so just me in this case) in 1980 was $1100, which would leave me with $100 to meet literally all of my other needs.

http://www.kff.org/health-costs/issue-b ... countries/

Also, I'm a *good* case. I'm young, I don't have kids, I'm in generally good health, ect.

Does the ACA need to go? Absolutely, the individial mandate system was a terrible idea when it was the answer to the employer mandate in the 90s and it hasn't gotten better since. Is it better than the AHCA? Absolutely. The *non partizan* CBO (whos head was picked by the republicans btw) estimates that under the AHCA 14 million *more* people would be uninsured by 2018 and 24 million more by 2026. They also estimate a decrease in insurance premiums starting in 2020, but that would be as a result of old/sick people who need the coverage most being priced out of the market entirely.
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52486

And yeah, when people don't have insurance (or technically have insurance but can't pay the co-pays so might as well not have insurance) when they get sick or hurt, they don't go to the doctor unless the absolutely have to because they can't afford it. There are no shortage of cases where by the time people in that situation felt they needed to go to the doctor and would make it work somehow, it's too late to treat whatever they had.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
- George W. Bush
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