Anything without a home!
 233 
Reply  
VIP
Avatar

Fexelea

Webmistress
Webmistress

Fire Keeper

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Japan
Souls: 262,679.49
Bank: 7,567.71
Posts: 12298
Reputation: 709
Wiki Edits: 19904
#2321
Again, you're therefore bringing a false equivalency. The post was about "right wing", which is an extremely wide spectrum. Replying with "Nazi" commentary reduces the point to right wing = nazi, which is not conducive.

IMO Nazism isn't right or left wing, it's fascist. Fascism is not right or left wing, by definition, and can align with both tendencies equally. There are several rather interesting takes on this.
Fextralife.com
A gaming blog and wiki network powered by real gamers.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

githcheater

Obsessed
Commander

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 12:03 pm
Souls: 270.00
Posts: 656
Reputation: 0
#2322
Praise-the-sun wrote:
food for thought


This unofficial website for the rockband Queen is unmoderated and has a primarily European membership, and is consequently very liberal when political topics are discussed in the "Personal" section

http://www.queenzone.com/forums/forum_view.aspx?Q=3
Avatar

SilkyGoodness

Hollowed
Redeemer

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:07 am
Souls: 9,440.00
Bank: 397.00
Posts: 1657
Reputation: 48
#2323
Fexelea wrote:Again, you're therefore bringing a false equivalency. The post was about "right wing", which is an extremely wide spectrum. Replying with "Nazi" commentary reduces the point to right wing = nazi, which is not conducive.

IMO Nazism isn't right or left wing, it's fascist. Fascism is not right or left wing, by definition, and can align with both tendencies equally. There are several rather interesting takes on this.

There is also, ya know, Mein Kampf and the utter distain for the left throughout that book and even the reasoning behind the use of red to appropriate leftist(specifically socialist) symbolism and imagery to a right wing movement. As well as Hitler's platform rose to power on an anti-"communist" agenda. I understand the Nazi part existed before that, but what it stood for was Nationalism and Fascism. I'm fuzzy on when it became anti-Semitic. Fascism is almost always attributed to being right wing, and Nationalism, as opposed to globalism, is a conservative or right wing ideology.

I'll give that a read when I'm not playing Andromeda.
VIP
Avatar

Fexelea

Webmistress
Webmistress

Fire Keeper

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Japan
Souls: 262,679.49
Bank: 7,567.71
Posts: 12298
Reputation: 709
Wiki Edits: 19904
#2324
"Almost always attributed" =/= correct.

Nazism is fascist, and fascism is not right wing anymore than communism is right wing. Have a look at the articles linked when you get a chance - modern US politics have bastardized terminology to make things like "nationalist" become "right wing" when they are actually not, and branded foreign movements from different times in categories they don't belong.

As an example, extremely Nationalist and Conservative Japan is still extremely Socialist and enjoys one of the lower banded paygaps in the world, strong government regulation, pushes high taxes, and strong employee protection policies and protectionism, all at the same time. This makes Japan centrist in sum, yet the very concept Nationalism tends to add it to a "right wing" category because people don't want to think nuance and thing ticking one box means all are ticked.

Nazism is similarly not exclusive to either right or left, and becomes its own thing, sharing aspects of "right" and "left" in large portions = becomes a new thing called fascism.
Fextralife.com
A gaming blog and wiki network powered by real gamers.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

EldritchImagination

Chosen Undead
Peacemaker

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:38 pm
Location: In a galaxy far, far away, beyond Space and time, in your dreams...
Souls: 12,360.00
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 5345
Reputation: 260
Wiki Edits: 3
#2325
I don't know about a lot of the stuff you guys are talking about, but when it comes to Nazism, to me it means fascist supremacy. "we are this, which is objectively the best thing to be, so everyone should be it, or suffer for not being it". Hence why more extreme feminists are dubbed "feminazis", because they act as if their group, beliefs, and in some cases gender, is better than others. It may go under different names, but Nazism, or at least the ideology behind it, can exist in anyone, at least by my interpretation of it.
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
Avatar

SilkyGoodness

Hollowed
Redeemer

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:07 am
Souls: 9,440.00
Bank: 397.00
Posts: 1657
Reputation: 48
#2326
Fexelea wrote:"Almost always attributed" =/= correct.

Nazism is fascist, and fascism is not right wing anymore than communism is right wing. Have a look at the articles linked when you get a chance - modern US politics have bastardized terminology to make things like "nationalist" become "right wing" when they are actually not, and branded foreign movements from different times in categories they don't belong.

As an example, extremely Nationalist and Conservative Japan is still extremely Socialist and enjoys one of the lower banded paygaps in the world, strong government regulation, pushes high taxes, and strong employee protection policies and protectionism, all at the same time. This makes Japan centrist in sum, yet the very concept Nationalism tends to add it to a "right wing" category because people don't want to think nuance and thing ticking one box means all are ticked.

Nazism is similarly not exclusive to either right or left, and becomes its own thing, sharing aspects of "right" and "left" in large portions = becomes a new thing called fascism.

I wouldn't call health care programs, welfare etc. socialist. Japan is a capitalist country, they implement social democratic policies which you can call liberal, but not socialist. If Japan is as nationalist as you claim, combined with being exceptionally capitalist like the USA I'd say it's very much just as right wing. I would say not being fascist and not being socialist is what makes it more centered. However I haven't seen much in that would make Japan nationalist. Nationalism isn't just patriotism or well managed boarders. It's more extreme than that. Hence why I use China as an example. There is a fanaticism for their government that is indoctrinated into it's populace that I have never experienced talking to Japanese people ever. Every Chinese person I know you have to be very careful about how you talk about their government, which is directly tied to their cultural and ethnic identity. Every Japanese person I have met, yourself included, will express opinions that are far more neutral and look at things from more than one perspective. It's just different. I would say WWII japan was Nationalist, but not now.
Avatar

Praise-the-sun

Revived
Savior

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:33 am
Souls: 10,840.50
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 2209
Reputation: 110
#2327
Why is Trump cautious of the Chinese? Because not enough people are!

What more do you need to know about people who boil alive, mans best friend, the dog, because of course they think suffering makes the meat taste better.

If they do that to such a beautiful creature, how do you think they will treat us other humans? Both are mammals and evolved side by side. Literally mans best friend, but **** let's make this creature feel the worst possible pain on earth before it dies.

Disgusting!! No compassion!!!
Avatar

EldritchImagination

Chosen Undead
Peacemaker

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:38 pm
Location: In a galaxy far, far away, beyond Space and time, in your dreams...
Souls: 12,360.00
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 5345
Reputation: 260
Wiki Edits: 3
#2328
Praise-the-sun wrote:Why is Trump cautious of the Chinese? Because not enough people are!

What more do you need to know about people who boil alive, mans best friend, the dog, because of course they think suffering makes the meat taste better.

If they do that to such a beautiful creature, how do you think they will treat us other humans? Both are mammals and evolved side by side. Literally mans best friend, but **** let's make this creature feel the worst possible pain on earth before it dies.

Disgusting!! No compassion!!!


Yes, because no other people on Earth does anything remotely similar to that in terms of inhumane treatment. I swear you're just looking for things to complain about at this point.
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
VIP
Avatar

Fexelea

Webmistress
Webmistress

Fire Keeper

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Japan
Souls: 262,679.49
Bank: 7,567.71
Posts: 12298
Reputation: 709
Wiki Edits: 19904
#2329
SilkyGoodness wrote:I wouldn't call health care programs, welfare etc. socialist. Japan is a capitalist country, they implement social democratic policies which you can call liberal, but not socialist.

Japan has incorporated significant amount of socialist and leftist, marxist-leaning policies into everything. The society is more important than the self. This has nothing to do with liberalism. Read "The Worth of the Social Economy: An International Perspective" - it specifically mentions Japan as the most successful "Socialist" regime in the world because the policies set in place are not those of extreme capitalism.

SilkyGoodness wrote:If Japan is as nationalist as you claim, combined with being exceptionally capitalist like the USA I'd say it's very much just as right wing.

But Japan is not right wing because the policies do not align with economic right-wing, or we would have CEOs making 800million dollars while employees make 50k (we don't). Being "nationalist" is not right wing either, or Turkey's Patriotic Party wouldn't have happened.

SilkyGoodness wrote:I would say not being fascist and not being socialist is what makes it more centered.

Not being Fascist has nothing to do with right or left. The political spectrum is right, left, up, down. Fascism is UP to authoritarian.
Image

SilkyGoodness wrote:However I haven't seen much in that would make Japan nationalist. Nationalism isn't just patriotism or well managed boarders. It's more extreme than that. Hence why I use China as an example. There is a fanaticism for their government that is indoctrinated into it's populace that I have never experienced talking to Japanese people ever. Every Chinese person I know you have to be very careful about how you talk about their government, which is directly tied to their cultural and ethnic identity. Every Japanese person I have met, yourself included, will express opinions that are far more neutral and look at things from more than one perspective. It's just different. I would say WWII japan was Nationalist, but not now.

Your definition of nationalism as it being something that means indoctrination is not what everyone else is using, lest you believe that Trump supporters who are being called "nationalists" are all indoctrinated to be overly protective of their government.

Regarding Japan... well if you ever do end up coming to Japan, you may get to experience the reality of conversation vs actions... down to being refused access to a place, rental of something including an apartment, a job or even a relationship based solely on your nationality. You can ask Cas how it works out.
Fextralife.com
A gaming blog and wiki network powered by real gamers.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

Back_Lot_Basher

Compulsory Poster
Champion

Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Canada
Souls: 20,141.00
Posts: 3758
Reputation: 104
Wiki Edits: 13
#2330
History has created a schism of sorts when it comes to the term Nazi. By definition it refers to national socialism, which does have leanings toward right-wing ideologies. But nobody can reference the term without drawing inferences about the historical context of WW2 Germany...that's inescapable. To me, Fascism has always been more about absolute control, than about values ascribed to ruling majorities. I can live with and have civil debates with someone whose views are either to the right or left of mine, but I suspect I'd find that difficult with a fascist.

The internet, which is supposed to hold the potential for opening up discourse to the whole world, and invite us to share discussions with those whose values differ from our own, has for the most part had the opposite effect. Most sites have become pigeonholes where people gather to have their opinions validated, not challenged. I don't think it's any surprise that the result has been a return to a form of tribalism in many countries. During an age where fear is used as a part of everything from advertising to political propaganda, it's little wonder people want to revert to insular places as a buffer against whatever boogeymen lie in wait.

Kudos to the members of this community, who at least seem to be able to hold it together when their views are challenged. Normally, I steer clear of these sorts of discussions on the internet, but this one seems relatively enlightened.
"Don't raise your voice. Improve your argument"
 233