Discuss Bloodborne and Yharnam lore, theories, beasts and the secrets of the land.
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zephid7

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#1
K->MP third draft

tl;dr Kos is the Moon Presence. "K->MP" means "[from] Kos to Moon Presence." fK->MP would look silly.

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This is my definitive study of the Moon Presence, and therefore the story of Bloodborne.

I've never liked the idea that the Moon Presence was a servant of Oedon or was somehow Oedon. Any theory that places the Moon Presence in a subservient role, essentially, to some other mysterious force. It seems blatant to me the Moon Presence is the active force in the world influencing events. Yet I'm exceptionally lazy, and while I've had this idea in my head for about a year, I only really sat down and started writing it out a few months ago. I'm not the first person to believe this, but I might be the first to spend so much time and words trying to reason out why I believe this. It was a nagging annoyance in the back of my head. Hopefully now it will annoy you and I can get some damn sleep.

It's a Google doc because I'm either a Redgrave poser or because the second draft was too long for a single reddit or fextralife post, and I didn't want to break it up into multiple posts. I did that with the first draft, and it bothered me.

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K->MP is divided into seven sections. They are:

Foreword: You can skip this. It's a page long and nothing really happens in it. I'm not sure why I wrote it.

I. On Lunacy: The origins of the nagging annoyance are given here. Basically, everything about the School of Mensis suggests they are lunatics of the old sense, i.e. obsessed with the moon. Why the hell then is Micolash talking to Kos? This section lays out the case that Micolash is not mad in the sense of speaking nonsense, so as you can already guess I'm a big fan of lost causes. It is the shortest section of K->MP, a deceptive three pages, and it is one of the weaker sections though not because it is short. Figured I'd lead with my worst foot.

II. On Death and the Eldritch Truth: Why is Micolash talking to something that we all know, thanks to the DLC, is very definitely dead? That's a conundrum, ain't it? This section talks about how it's impossible to kill Great Ones because of large bodies of water. Sound also figures into it. Also something about blood echoes and the strange amount of bells in the game. It is a dignified seven pages with some change, and honestly probably the strongest section of the whole study. At one point I was going to do this as a stand-alone theory, so it can be applied to more things than just, "Why isn't Fish Mom dead?"

III. On Metamorphosis: If you believed the malarkey of the last section, this one reveals unto you the golden mystery that things in this world are capable of sloughing off their miserable shells and giving a majestic shimmy). It has a brief exploration of cocoon theory, the greatest lore theory of all time, and then uses it for some nonsense about Great Ones treating death like a deep sleep akin to a caterpillar in a cocoon. It is a respectable seven pages and almost the exact same amount of change as the last section. I suppose this could be a strong section, but all the strength comes from the shining beauty that is cocoon theory.

IV. On Surrogacy and the Unseen: In this section, I finally stop teasing you and get down to giving evidence for thinking Kos is the Moon Presence. My evidence? Why, music, of course! Music, and some stray lines of dialogue! I also copied and revised an old reddit comment about the Plain Doll being the Moon Presence for this section to help prove an ancillary point. By the end of this thing, you'll think we're all the Moon Presence in Purgatory, and who's to say you're wrong? This one's an elegant eight pages. As far as strength goes, you did read what the evidence is, right?

V. On Defilement and Echoes: This section wastes your time with discussion of motive, literally the least comprehensible aspect of the Moon Presence you could try explaining. There's this long part in it about curses, about how we're all trapped in an endless hunt with no way out unless we eat umbilical cords, and it is nuts. I think my favorite part of the whole study is the footnote on the first page explaining the Holy Moonlight Sword. It's just shoehorned in there: I could never figure out where to work it in. Clocks in at a grandiloquent eight pages, and is solid proof that I need an editor. Strength-wise, I wouldn't believe any of it.

VI. On Extinction: The Challenger Deep of the study is within reach! This section's depressing. Partly because it feels like it should be the conclusion to Section V but was arbitrarily split into its own because the author wanted to use the name "On Extinction." It's also partly due to how sparse evidence is at this point. The whole thing feels very speculative, but if you were sensible you would've abandoned the dive long before, back when Section IV was trying to convince you a few bars of music make a lore theory. It's a humble four pages, not as pathetic as Section I but not living up to the promise of its excellent title.

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Thanks goes to those cited in footnotes. Special thanks goes to the Lore Syndicate and every other person I'm forgetting who I bounced ideas off of.

Now, I am going to take a long break, spend time in cursed chalice dungeons getting mad, and try to never think about the lore of this game again. Even if you're not convinced, I certainly hope you're entertained!
"I did not learn from books! No, no, no no no...I learned it all with my own mind."

K->MP: a Bloodborne lore theory
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Rakuyo

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#2
I see the forum's back up.

Here's the reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/com ... _died_and/
Those who seek dark, will always find it.
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zephid7

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#3
Working on the fourth draft. So far my plans are more footnotes. As well as two more sections (I call them appendices to be fancy) that talk about the Greco-Roman and Christian references, Felt like I gave the name "Flora" short shrift given all the flowers in the game, and the flower symbols like the floor of the Grand Cathedral. That needs a nice explanation, plus talk about Artemis. Clean up the language, make it more readable.
"I did not learn from books! No, no, no no no...I learned it all with my own mind."

K->MP: a Bloodborne lore theory

Yorutamashi

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#4
Wow, this is amazing... I don't know if i'm going to be able to read all of this.... but nonetheless it simply amazes me to think that someone (only Miyazaki-san?) is capable of creating such a deep story, that makes us reflect and try to connect the dots in such a way...

Where does he get the time to do all this and also have in mind creating other games... it's just mind boggling.

Congrats for the great narrative.
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shinkonryu

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#5
i always find it weird on the extra time allotted before "Nightmare Slain" comes out after killing the Wet Nurse.

Which brought me to the idea that the Wet Nurse is not the actual nightmare, but rather, Mergo's saparation from Yharnam. As you can hear Mergo stopped crying with a hint of calming down right before the "Nightmare Slain" dialogue comes out.

This also goes to the Moon Presence's nightmare of losing her child. The nightmare ends when the player became an offspring of her image.

This goes to the Orphan of Kos as well. Where the nightmare ends when his immortal soul was set free.

Why I mention this is because the DLC seems to happen sometime in between entering the Forbidden Woods (gaining the password) and before the workshop begins to burn (Slaying the Wet Nurse), since the DLC dialogues will not occur if player goes beyond this point. My point in this, is if the Orphan was freed before the workshop begins to burn. Wouldn't the orphan being freed has an effect with MP?

We all know the great ones are immortal in a way, as seeing Ebrietas to be re-encounterable in the chalice dungeons which i think is like their sleeping chambers. Though I always thought that Kos is like those immortal jellyfishes or siphonophores, that turns into this dormant phase in the form of the Kos parasites.

Though I do commend that you're able to notice the soundtrack motif in linking the relations of various characters. At the most, both Kos and the Moon Presence are the host of the hunters' "Heaven" and "Hell". As hunters who have the sanity to re enter the dream and have end their hunter status through Gehrman's siderite salvation will not end up in the hunter's nightmare whether they like it or not.
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Rakuyo

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#6
I can't really hear the motif, but then I have no ear for it.

I do detect a lot of similarities between Orphan of Kos - phase 2 - and Blood-starved Beast
Those who seek dark, will always find it.