By Sifr
#1248792

"Pyrrhic," that's the word I was trying to think of. I was just feeling too lazy to check tv tropes. lol. I can pretty much always count on you to explain my thoughts better than I can.  ^_^

I can't take all the credit, I owe most of my powers to a bizarre accident involving a thesaurus, lightning and a bag of marbles...

:lol:


By Guest
#1248774

I tried it once.. 

i don't really think it's a problem. It works if you're both kind of ruthless (and can appreciate your little bro outdoing you there) and are a reformer type as he is. If those ideals of reform are strong enough, you can easily not want Harrowmont in charge. A lot of people will swallow their pride when their deepest ideals are at stake.

The problem is figuring out why you have those ideals. Bhelen has them partly for personal reasons... because of Rica. Our own characters don't have anything like that. 


By Cyrus Amell
#1248777

It does not help that Bhelen makes it very hard to go through with it, especially if you have a kid with Mardy. You can approach him with the sole purpose of asking him to take in your son and he will basically say that he will give him a small dwelling in a corner of Orzammar, like some shame that needs to be hidden. And really, do you think Bhelen won't at some point consider having the kid killed to prevent any "issues" from arising? Would we have even been able to trust him if he said the kid would be accepted as a full member of the family in the palace?

In all honesty, that Bhelen turns out to be a better leader than Harrowmont seems to be a separate set of facts next to the present concerns of our Warden when we make the decision on who to side with. I always drag along Zevran so he can "persuade" me to to support Bhelen whenever I first approach Harrowmont's adviser.   


By FiveThreeTen
#1248781

In all honesty, that Bhelen turns out to be a better leader than Harrowmont seems to be a separate set of facts next to the present concerns of our Warden when we make the decision on who to side with. I always drag along Zevran so he can "persuade" me to to support Bhelen whenever I first approach Harrowmont's adviser.   

That's pretty much what I do too. Zevran makes the compelling argument that Harrowmont can't watch out for his own safety and appears weaker than his rival. But I side with Behlen for other reasons too (besides meta-gaming). Each of my main Wardens (Cousland, Amell and Tabris) are mainly here to get the Dwarves assistance. Behlen supporting more trade with the surface is also a plus.

But I admit that Behlen's want to shake up the rigid class system isn't really apparent when you first play.


By Guest
#1248773

That's pretty much what I do too. Zevran makes the compelling argument that Harrowmont can't watch out for his own safety and appears weaker than his rival. But I side with Behlen for other reasons too (besides meta-gaming). Each of my main Wardens (Cousland, Amell and Tabris) are mainly here to get the Dwarves assistance. Behlen supporting more trade with the surface is also a plus.

But I admit that Behlen's want to shake up the rigid class system isn't really apparent when you first play.

It's apparent enough if you play the dwarf noble in the beginning. You kind of have a choice to be a pompous *** or a populist, and you see where Trian or Bhelen fall on that account (you even see Rica coming out of his room, I think). I agree though that it could've been done better.

That said, it's funnier to be pompous. I like the idea of an Aeducan like this being humbled through the rest of the story. You could even play it as a redemption story, where you realize later that Bhelen was a better guy than either you or Trian. Or play it as a straight revenge story, where you become even worse over time. lol

Lots of subtle ways to roleplay.. one of the good things about this game.


By Morsmordre
#16762808
People always forget that there actually two ways that the Dwarf Noble origin can play out. The usual one is where Bhelen frames the dwarf noble. The other is that when you encounter Trian in the Deep Roads, he is alive and feels threatened by you, attacks you and you are forced to kill him. That's when you are discovered with his body. If you have the latter ending, Bhelen blames you when you meet him later instead of being open about it because the accusations are true (although he would betray you anyway)

So it makes sense to side with Bhelen to:
A) Keep an Aeducan on the throne.
B) Have a stronger king to lead Orzammar
C) If you have the ending where you do actually kill Trian, your Warden may wish to make amends.
By LongWarrior
#16797401
That's exactly what I did. I played the origin version where I killed Trian, and then spiralled into self-loathing, "What have I done?", etc. My warden never actually clicked that Bhelen orchestrated the whole thing. So of course he would support his brother.

It was actually my favourite playthrough.