1 
Reply  
#1

By now I've played all the origins and classes, including a rogue archer, my least favorite. I had a lot of reservations about playing a two-handed warrior because two handers tend to be frustratingly slow, but having just played a two-handed warrior on the nightmare difficulty, I think I like it even better than playing a melee rogue. It's tough going in the beginning even with the aid of dlc items. You are slow and when you miss, it really hurts. And then all the enemies seem to go for you. Morrigan had to save my MC's sorry *** with force field numerous times until Zevran and Wynne joined the team. Even then I can see rogues make far better use of mass stun (waking nightmare) and mass paralysis my mages can cast later on. I often saw Zevran finishing my MC's target while he is still in the mid swing. But but...

Since I put on everything into strength, by level 7, he can wear dragon plate armor and wield dragonbone cleaver. Level eight, he wears Night Commander's armor and with spellward and with just one expert dwemer rune, he gets the maximum magic protection the game will allow. Give him a lifeward ring and he makes a far better tank than any S&S warrior, plus the amount of damage he can deal at the later stage of game is just amazing. With both mages casting haste and Zevran quickly finishing off whatever my MC and the mages started, you get a ridiculously awesome team. By the end game, Zevran was only 1% higher in overall party damage contribution than the warden and they were equal partners in damage contribution, because the sheer amount of damage the warden can inflict with each swing. (It does prove that rogues are the highest damage dealers though since Zevran missed at least six or seven levels of fighting the Warden was in)

So, which class do you prefer for your MC? Two handed warrior or a melee rogue?


Avatar

capn233

Crystal Cave
Lord of the Fallen

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:44 pm
Souls: 88.00
Posts: 16107
Reputation: 0
#2

2H overall.  Part of that is just because there is a bit more management involved, so it feels like I am doing more.  Melee rogue is more about using a stun then autoattacking, with a few DW sweeps thrown in it seems like.

DW Rogue kills trash mobs faster, the advantage of 2H is in fights where the enemy has the potential to disable the player with knockdowns or stuns.  For instance, 2H is probably a little better against ogres unless the rogue can make sure the target is completely locked down with paralysis runes, poison and stuns.

A couple things that are helpful early with hitrate is to pick up Precise Striking and then turn it on after you use a few talents (after you get Deathblow, you can potentially leave it on all the time).  Also once you get Wynne you can set her to buff you with Heroic Offense, and later Haste for swing speed.


-This evidence is irrefutable.
#3

Hmmm....I suppose I just don't specialize to the degree that others do.  I prefer two-hand rogue over warrior because of all the additional skills you get.  But I don't just focus on dual-wield or rogue abilities.  I also go for archery points as well.  Sometimes you want to keep your distance...  For that matter, all my warriors carry a crossbow as a secondary weapon as well though I have them put in no more than one or two archery skills.


#4

2H overall.  Part of that is just because there is a bit more management involved, so it feels like I am doing more.  Melee rogue is more about using a stun then autoattacking, with a few DW sweeps thrown in it seems like.

DW Rogue kills trash mobs faster, the advantage of 2H is in fights where the enemy has the potential to disable the player with knockdowns or stuns.  For instance, 2H is probably a little better against ogres unless the rogue can make sure the target is completely locked down with paralysis runes, poison and stuns.

A couple things that are helpful early with hitrate is to pick up Precise Striking and then turn it on after you use a few talents (after you get Deathblow, you can potentially leave it on all the time).  Also once you get Wynne you can set her to buff you with Heroic Offense, and later Haste for swing speed.

Yes, I must say I became a big fan of indomitable, especially during the Denerim quests just before the Landsmeet, when the archers spam scattershots. (During this period, Morrigan's priority changes and the first thing in her tactic is to send archers to sleep) The only thing about this build is it relies more heavily on talents than melee rogues and I usually have him wear warden commanders boots + Andruil's Blessing. You still need Wynne in the team to rejuvenate their stamina + to cast haste. Otherwise, even with all the willpower boosting items (spellward, dragonbone cleaver, and the Night Commander's armor), indomitable may come off. I have at least three passive talents activated for the warden at all times - rally, indomitable and threaten. I tend to insist on giving riposte and combat stealth to my melee rogues asap to take care of enemy mages, but other than that not really bothered by any other active DW talent. Passive talents and paralysis runes seem more important for them (and of course any item that increases backstab/critical strike damage).


#5

Hmmm....I suppose I just don't specialize to the degree that others do.  I prefer two-hand rogue over warrior because of all the additional skills you get.  But I don't just focus on dual-wield or rogue abilities.  I also go for archery points as well.  Sometimes you want to keep your distance...  For that matter, all my warriors carry a crossbow as a secondary weapon as well though I have them put in no more than one or two archery skills.

My melee rogues are mostly dex build and can do reasonably good damage with bows without any active talent. I usually start to give Zevran one row of archery talents once he reaches level 19 or so, just so that he can have a go at the arch demon when you can't get closer to it. I was actually amazed that he did more damage with his arrow of slaying than Leliana with hers since she gets aim and master archery unlocked, though it may be because Leliana only has a go at the elite orge while Zevran gets to shoot the arch demon. Only four times during the entire game, I tell my melee rogues or warriors use a bow. But yes, I like giving them good bows as well as best daggers available.


Avatar

capn233

Crystal Cave
Lord of the Fallen

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:44 pm
Souls: 88.00
Posts: 16107
Reputation: 0
#6

What is Leliana's second spec in that instance, and is she running Song of Courage?

edit: ah if it is just on arrow of slaying, did Zevran have more critical damage bonus?


-This evidence is irrefutable.
#7

What is Leliana's second spec in that instance, and is she running Song of Courage?

edit: ah if it is just on arrow of slaying, did Zevran have more critical damage bonus?

Yes, she was. Zevran had the dlc bow, and I didn't do Lel's personal quest in that round. So, she got the second best bow, but any equipment that increase critical damage chance with bows went to Leliana. Zev had Red Jenny Seeker, Felon's coat (which was slightly higher in increasing dex than Lel's dlc armor). I think the difference probably had something to do with Lel gets cunning boost while Zev gets dex boost, plus I put more points in cunning ro Lel than to Zev. I increase his cunning until he can unlock up to 50 XP chests and disarm 50 XP traps with three lockpick skills (all the physical talents tombs I buy go to Zevran unless the warden is a rogue, in which case he has the job of picking locks) and equipment (which adds about 11 cunning points overall). Basically, I don't bother with his cunning once his base cunning is 22, which will enable me to unlock his master stealth talent. All the rest goes to dex. By level 18, he really turns into an awesome killing machine. By the end game, with rally on, his defense rate is near 160. He doesn't get hit even fighting elites. Even better, if I give him dueling as a second spec, but I prefer both his and Lel's second spec to be a ranger.


Avatar

capn233

Crystal Cave
Lord of the Fallen

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:44 pm
Souls: 88.00
Posts: 16107
Reputation: 0
#8

Red Jenny Seekers are 15% critical damage bonus... Zev probably had higher crit damage bonus and AoS is a double crit.  Also if Zev has a higher base damage bow, that would give him an advantage for a damage number.

With Lethality, Leliana gains the same amount of damage for a Longbow with Cunning as Zev does with Dex.  Actually in reality she gains a little more since Cunning also increases AP and further buffs Song of Courage.  Of course if they are in the same party then Zev is also gaining from her SoC.


-This evidence is irrefutable.
#9

Her lethality was unlocked when she had a go at the elite orge and I don't take Lel to the final battle unless I'm a mage and I want two melee rogue and two mage set up. (I used to favour ranged attack against high dragon, broodmother and the arch demon, but nowadays I always use melee fight backed up by two mages. You don't get the killing blow animation with magic or archery) So, Zev didn't benefit from her SoC. Perhaps, it was Red Jenny Seeker or perhaps Zev had two items that raise all his attribute by two points, while Lel didn't have any. Or perhaps, it was the fact that Zev's opponent was an arch demon.


#10

Oh, actually apart from Red Jenny Seekers (I'm not sure why I thought it would only increase melee critical damage. It should also increase archery damage), I remember Jevran was also benefiting from Telechinic weapon buffet. And here I thought cunning doesn't benefit archers, apart from indirectly through SoC. I've noticed however that increasing cunning doesn't seem to do anything to the base damage value for daggers, even with lethality unlocked, although it will increase armor penetration. Is that a bug? I don't think it will make any difference to my usual build, however. 100 attack and defense score is just not good enough for fighting elites or bosses and cunning seems to do nothing for them..


1