Discuss FromSoftware's Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
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i think she is the woman that was laying next to the stone grave before the divine dragon fight
Actually if you follow the Purification ending, Emma will lead you to the grave of Takeru and Tomoe so the corpse laying in the palace can't be hers.
I mean, if Tomoe died in Fountainhead Palace there is no other way for the Ashinas to retrieve her body, because Mibu Village was sealed off . the old grave is probably just a ceremonial grave
I thought the same thing. The lore suggests the "old grave" is only a symbolic memorial... so... if its NOT lady Tomoe's body at the top of fountainhead palace, who else could it be and why is she relevant?


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Maybe. There isn't any confirmation. That woman seems at bit too young (?) (younger than Emma it seems) too be Tomoe. I mean, Tomoe trained Genichiro. That body in the cave leading to the Divine Dragon fight is too young (in terms of body size) to train Genichiro. She looks like a Divine Child (?) than an adult female. This is even a weaker point, but I'm gonna say it anyway: she (the body) doesn't dress like a samurai. That's my observation and theories.


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After defeating the Divine Dragon, when you pray to the woman, it says "the shrine maiden sleeps soundly".
I just don't think any of these responses refute the idea that it could be her. But it just seems too much of a coincidence that there is a beautiful woman warrior who has a deep connection to the divine realm is immortal in the same way Sekiro is and can fight with lighting, and an unrelated beautiful female character who is lying at the entrance to the divine realm surrounded by lightning warriors who is sleeping. I think she's young in spite of her age because of her immortality. Like how I think Kuro is actually possibly ancient. I mean, Sekiro doesn't know what tomoe looks like, so obviously he would just think Shrine maiden. In the same way that he doesn't recognize the sculptor as the Shura demon unless you progress the story along far enough for him to figure it out.
maybe. A small detail: Tomoe and Takeru's graves in Ashina were dug up.
Bet you five bucks that a future DLC is going to have you go back in time or through another memory where you get to fight her. She's set up too much as being a strong fighter by Isshin and her being Genichiro's master. Similarly to Lady Maria in Bloodbore. I am expecting a lot of lighting shenanigans
I hope that a Tomoe DLC means usable Lightning Attacks
The line "Tomoe would watch her young master as he gazed longingly at the coiling clouds. The sight meant everything to her." is about Lord Takeru, not Genichiro. While she was his teacher (as evidenced by Isshin and the fact that he uses the Lightning of Tomoe), he was never her master. Lord Takeru on the other hand, the previous Divine Heir, is revealed by Emma during the Purification Ending dialogue that Tomoe tried the Purification Ending with Takeru. This implies that Takeru was Tomoe's master in the same way that Kuro is Sekiro's master.
Tomoe better be in a DLC, if one is ever going to be made. One of the most, if not THE MOST, badass samurai in the history of Japan.
I believe you're right.
I had a theory about what happened to Takeru and Tomoe. Tomoe finds the Black mortal blade and kills Takeru to get purification for herself. Maybe thats why Emma knew about purification and the fact that one of them must die in the process. Ishin kills Tomoe. As there are two different dialogues, one says he killed a shura (hence this cant be sculptor) and one says he fought with Tomoe and that was the closest he came to death. So it was a fight to death with Tomoe and in the end he killed her with the red blade. Thats probably the reason he knew about the red mortal blade in the first place. (Genichiro had some lines supporting this at the final fight). Tomoe did not know the black mortal blade had the power to create life and hence created Kuro by sacrificing the dragon-blood of Takeru ( Kuro means Black according to google). This probably explains why Kuro has no parents. Isshin gave it to owl for safekeeping and Owl uses it in Hirata estate to kill Sekiro, hurting Kuro in the process. So Kuro was able to resurrect Sekiro. If you chose to kill Owl, Genichiro, knowing his grand father gave it to Owl, retrieves it. If you side with Owl, he kills Genichiro and puts his head beside Ishin after the fight. Then you can see the black mortal blade at his back.


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Lol opened an account for non-anon posting ended but ended up posting anonymous.
I like this a lot
This makes sense, except the part about Kuro. In the beginning of first memory an NPC says the Hirata Estate belongs to a cadet branch of the Ashina clan, and at the end of memory during cutscene Kuro himself calls out for his mom and dad. Thus at some point he had parents and likely extended family as well.
Tomoe killing Takeru to "get purification for herself" - I'm not sure this would work. If it would, then Wolf wouldn't have had to get the Dragon's Tears to end Kuro's life, he'd only need the Mortal Blade. The Dragon's Tears are clearly necessary to sever the immortality of a Divine Heir (ie kill them for good), and Tomoe's Note seems to imply they couldn't attain them. A conversation with Emma explicitly says Tomoe didn't have the Mortal Blade - which could specifically mean the red one, but probably blankets both, since both must be capable of killing the undying. In short, I don't think Takeru and Tomoe achieved either Immortal Severance OR Purification. I do like the idea of Tomoe using Open Gate, which would be a cool tie to Genichiro having it at the end of the game, but why wouldn't Emma know about that? Why would she say “Tomoe couldn’t achieve Purification – she didn’t have the Mortal Blade” and neglect to mention that something very similar did happen? Also, I’m not sure where the idea of Kuro being an adopted orphan is from. I’ve seen it around a lot but can’t find anything to support it.
"Tomoe" means "eddy/whirlpool", which links her to the several hints about "spiraling clouds" above the Fountainhead Palace. In addition to that, originally it was the representation of a coiled snake, which further links her not only to the place where Sekiro fights the Lightning Dragon, but also to the Dragon itself. My theory, is that the "sleeping shrine maid" just outside the entrance to said place may be the human form of the Dragon/Tomoe.
Takeru was her master, not Genichiro.
Couldn't that Painting in the Ashina Dojo (where you fight Ashina Elite and later those two ministry Ninjas) portrait Genichiro and Tomoe? The Samurai could be Genichiro and the heavenly Woman Tomoe. Notice her Shoulders; looks similar to the Armor the Okami Warrior Women are wearing and it would fit, since she taught Genichiro the lightning. Of course the painting would be an artists conception, thus making her 'godlike' in this scene.
Would be awesome if From release a dlc focus on Tomoe/takeru's story