Discuss the latest Dark Souls Title!
1 
Reply  
VIP
Avatar

TSMP

Chosen Undead
Peacemaker

Squirming with Insight

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:42 am
Souls: 43,638.50
Posts: 6667
Reputation: 674
Wiki Edits: 561
#1
The following is an excerpt of a blog article.  Read Full Article

The Dark Souls community has been growing and evolving for the past six years. But is there still life left in us, or are we all going hollow? Is the flame finally fading?

Avatar

EldritchImagination

Chosen Undead
Peacemaker

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:38 pm
Location: In a galaxy far, far away, beyond Space and time, in your dreams...
Souls: 12,750.00
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 5445
Reputation: 262
Wiki Edits: 3
#2
Well aren't you the article writer recently? Would make Emergence proud. wherever that glorious bastard is.
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
Avatar

EldritchImagination

Chosen Undead
Peacemaker

Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:38 pm
Location: In a galaxy far, far away, beyond Space and time, in your dreams...
Souls: 12,750.00
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 5445
Reputation: 262
Wiki Edits: 3
#3
Frankly, I've all but completely abandoned the Dark Souls "community". I only really come here still for the non dark souls game news and discussions....and of course the off topic.

Before, I've said my main problem was that I've gotten too used to them, am too familiar, but I think I've found a different answer. Thing is, the Souls games are kinda sh!t to me. Now this isn't objective, of course, but I've realized that over time, after the high that the games gave me has worn away, what I liked about the games are gone, and are replaced with problems that make them more a chore to play. Like the kids of gaming past thought their games were great at the time, I too found great enjoyment from playing the souls games, but coming back to them, that feeling has completely changed with my experience with other games. I've found games that do what I liked about Souls games better, so playing Souls sometimes makes me wish I was playing those games instead. The only game that really holds appeal to me is Bloodborne, but I've played that game to death so much so that I know where everything and how to beat the bosses almost down pat, thus making it kind of boring to play for more than a half an hour or so.

As to the point of the article, what I think is killing the Souls series community, if it is getting killed, is the game's very design philosophy. It's a game made to be "hardcore" by means of cryptic secrets, challenging gameplay (though that's debatable), and retro game design elements, thus inevitably attracting the "hardcore" (aka elitist @$$hole) gamers who are as welcoming to newcomers as a wall made of chainsaws, plus being not so appealing to gamers who don't want that kind of experience (either with the game or the community). Then it's also made to be highly social, with many players relying on co-oping to progress, reading messages from other players, and discussing the story and secrets with others. Add to that the PvP features and laissez faire approach to player management and interaction, and you have an great place for toxicity and stagnation to breed.

Also, I should note that when I say "hardcore" gamer, it is not to be confused with hardcore gamer. Hardcore gamers are simply gamers who are dedicated and deeply engaged with a certain video game Title, genre, and/or franchise. "Hardcore" gamers are.......well, imagine the typical elitist, "I'm better than you cause I'm a REAL gamer" type of gamer. That's how I define them.


This is a separate thing from my answer to the article, but also related to my perspective on the souls community and how they see the Souls games and Souls-likes:

Another thing that I've learned from souls fans and watching their videos or reading their articles/posts is that they can have a subjective idea of what makes a souls game a true, good souls game, but in a way that goes beyond simple subjective opinion. Rather, it develops into a matter of, "this was the one true souls game and the other betrayed what made the souls game good", and such like that. perspectives that often use rhetorical evidence and personal belief and opinion to prove why [insert souls game here] was the best of the bunch, cause it did this and that this way. Statements like, "this had meaning", or "this ruined what made Souls games Souls games", or "this is what a souls game should be". Not always exactly worded like that, but the basic message was the same.

This usually routes to the question, "what makes a souls game", or, "what defines the souls genre" for those who believe the souls games are a genre. Although many do hold to the idea that souls games have started a genre based on what makes a souls game, what actually makes a souls game can vary greatly from person to person, thus what makes me not care for the idea of a "souls genre" given how subjective it is. One good example was BobTheHollow, who in his articles stated that the game, The Surge, wasn't a Souls-like, but The Stanley Parable was, due it's story telling and plot development. I think it's fair to say that different people can find a very different meaning in Souls games, and what constitutes a "souls game".

As much as I didn't like Dark Souls 2, and though I jokingly hated on it in the past, I wouldn't sincerely call it a bad Souls game, or not a real Souls game just because it didn't do what I wanted in a Souls game. This all leads to my belief that there is no one Souls game. Every person has their own idea of what makes Souls games what they are, and there's no one right answer.
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
Avatar

Wolfenstein

Obsessed
Commander

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:50 pm
Souls: 3,029.00
Posts: 505
Reputation: 21
#4
Absolutely, TSMP. You've described it perfectly. Community was the glue that tied the magic of Souls together, really. Want more out of the lore? Go to the lore buffs. Want more from PvP? Check out the PvP tier list with all the memes and image macros you can wish for. Want to see speedruns or challenge runs? Pick your streamer.

Yet everyone is so tired of Dks3 now, and you can feel this collective motion of routine to just keep playing some Dks3 due to the sense of community that Souls history has inserted on you, characterized by that idea of just sitting with others by the bonfire to warm up. That's so gone. I'm not sure if Dks3 sped this up or something, but it lost it's community way too fast.

ckmishn

Addicted
First Warden

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:18 pm
Souls: 958.00
Posts: 170
Reputation: 10
Wiki Edits: 6
#5
If Bloodborne ever got a PS4 Pro patch (and, given it was published by Sony it really should have), then I might go back and get the last 2 or 3 bosses in the final Chalice dungeon and get my Platinum.

Also, if the DLC for DS3 is cheap enough at the Halloween Steam sale I might pick it up. For the most part though, I'm done until maybe there's a Bloodborne 2. I don't think, even if there was a DS4, that I'd pick it up on launch (and certainly if I did it would have to launch on PC at the same time like DS3 did), though once it had a cheap enough sale price I might.
Avatar

announakis

Compulsory Poster
Champion

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:00 pm
Location: UTC+10
Souls: 20,690.50
Posts: 3146
Reputation: 194
Wiki Edits: 18
#6
I actually believe that Bloodborne was the downfall of DkS3 and triggered an accelerated burnout in the community:
Bloodborne was daring and ambitious, brilliantly renewing the franchise while keeping the core elements.
Dark souls 3 came what? not even a year after BB and turned out to be a "best of" Dark souls with a flare of BB added to it. DkS3 is a fan service game and paradoxically is the one game that pushed fans away the fastest. I mean it is a brilliant game (with flaws but great game nonetheless) but lacks this new flare that normally comes with a new Souls game...this vibe was totally stolen by BB.
Just look at the cutscenes in BB...now look at the cutscenes in DkS3...this sums it up. There is no "soul" in Dark Souls 3 and the community felt it.
my YouTube channel
I used to be an [eclectic gamer] like you once, but then I got a [dark souls] in the knee.
so...
A hoonter must hoont!

Achtpuntzes

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Mon May 16, 2016 4:04 am
Souls: 8,156.01
Posts: 1180
Reputation: 30
#7
well,

my opinion is: play the game or dont play the game and move on
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build

Bonaduce80

Casual
Convict

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:07 am
Souls: 287.50
Posts: 38
Reputation: 1
#8
I dreamt a couple of nights ago From announced Demons' Souls 2. I don't even think a sequel is necessary, but the atmosphere recreated would be great to be seen again. When I watch streamers playing Dark Souls occasionally it is always engaging, even if just for a few hours and knowing exactly where everything is. Dark Souls 3 though? It feels like a chore watching it being played. I haven't bought it yet (getting through a massive PS3/4 backlog at the moment with very limited free time), but I know just from seeing it I won't enjoy it at the same level.

Is the Souls community dead/dying? I wouldn't go so far, but a good chunk of it will have moved on to new things that picked up interesting ideas from the series. There was a time 3 years ago no other game than a Souls game would catch my interest. Now I look at games I check out and get excited about them. And that is fine too. Growing out of loving something doesn't make your experience any less valuable. Old Final Fantasy players can probably relate to that.

All of this having been said, I am very much looking forward to new announcements of From's new games. Dark Souls is in my eyes well spent, its flame now consumed: but no one can take away from you the bolts on the back when facing first the Taurus Demon, the toxic darts in Blightown upper area or that blasted giant skeleton around the corner on the Tomb of Giants run to Nito. Those are horrible and treasured memories the community can cling (ring?) to.

lordherpie

Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:09 am
Souls: 188.00
Posts: 18
Reputation: 2
#9
I think i've enjoyed Dark Souls in a different way. I mainly went solo trough the series except for the occasional invasion or rage-summon to kill a boss. My feeling of community came from watching videos, and visiting forums where I was looking for answers on the story. when it comes to the gameplay and secrets ive not read much and have found many ways of cheesing and strategies in my own. when I would find something I would share it with some RL friends and usually would find out that it was not new to them cuz it had been shared before XD (with the exception of DS1 soul-farming behind that door in the forest with the untargetable invisibile enemies, which I found out before it was listed on most websites... my finest moment).

Revisiting Dark Souls is still interesting for me since I don't know all there is to find yet.(At least not for Ds1 and 3, since ive played part 2 and the SotFS variant to death... yes.. I am that rare player that is really into Ds2 so I know what its like to play a souls game with hardly any community left :p.

I suspect I will revisit all 3 games a couple of times before it really gets old. (although I hope Ds1 will be remade to not have me experience 10 FPS Blight town again... that is annoying). and if I'm still hungry for souls.... ive only finshed BB and DeS once... much to discover yet.
and when I do replay m, ill be on the forums again, scavenging for story information, and seeing if my newfound secret was already know by the community (which has been the case for every secret I discovered since DS1 XD).
Avatar

ElvesRule

Lifetime Subscriber
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:27 pm
Souls: 7,182.00
Posts: 1239
Reputation: 71
#10
Sadly, haven’t played in weeks, and in the last 7 months I’ve hardly played at all. I told my non gaming friends, who have heard my whining and triumphs in Souls going back to 2010, and they are shocked that I no longer play. Shocked and pleased.

I’m pretty much done. :-/ But, if they had a remastered Demon’s and Dark Souls 1 for PS4, for sure I would come scurrying back.

Btw, announakis, you make a really great point about the affect that BB had on DS3. I had a whole different attitude and set of expectations for Souls after BB.
1