Discuss lore and secrets of Dark Souls 3
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plasmafogking

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#1
Man-Grub's Staff
"Staff of the man-grubs who guard Rosaria’s Bed Chamber. Their holy symbol is formed at the tip. Wielder’s luck strengthens effects of sorceries.
The man-grubs have clearly been reborn, but as what?"


Saint Bident
"A silver bident decorated by a holy symbol, formerly wielded by Saint Klimt. He discarded this weapon, that draws upon one's faith, on the day that he put his own faith behind him."

Bountiful Sunlight (gained from Rosaria's Soul)
"Special Miracle granted by the Princess of Sunlight.
The miracles of Gwynevere, loved as both mother and wife bestow their blessing on a great many warriors."


Archdeacon Skirt
"Of the three Archdeacons of the Deep, one attended to Rosaria, Mother of Rebirth, whom he deemed a goddess."

Well, we know very little about them. They were previously humans/undead, who went through rebirth too many times. Most of them are mindless beast who attack anyone on sight, but some are dedicated priests who cast holy spells.
Some might think that only Rosaria's fingers became Man-grubs, but that wouldn't be true. It seems that deacons/priests of the cathedral also utilized Rosaria and eventually were turned into Man-grub.
However, whole process of rebirth seems... odd. It is clearly connected with light and divine powers, so why it turns people into monsters?
Process of rebirth allows you to relocate your starts - essentially allows you to modify your body (STR, DEX, VIT, etc) and mind (INT, FTH). However, the most interestingly so, Man-Grub's Staff gets strengthened by luck. And luck isn't tied to physical or mental state of a person (at least least from a logic point of view). To a normal person, being turned into ugly human-flesh caterpillar would be considered very unlucky, so there should be no reason for an unlucky person to use weapon who is strengthened by luck. Unless being turned into Man-Grub is lucky.

Now, we have five main things about these creatures:
1) They can use holy magic (which should be a sorcery, because they staff can only cast sorceries) which no other creature have access to;
2) They (casters) utilize luck for their spells;
3) Some of them were Rosaria's fingers (most likely melee ones and that neutral one who drops red soap stone) and some of them most likely were priests (hostile casters);
4) They got turned into these creatures via going through process of rebirth;
5) Rosaria treat these human-flesh caterpillars as children (seeing how she comfort one of them and her entire roam is filled with baby cribs).

So, my theory is this: What if Man-Grub is a temporary form? Maybe being turned into these creatures is actually a blessing and will cause them one day turn into something else. Maybe the ones we meet are actually a larva (child) state of something much more grander.
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BobTheHollow

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#2
plasmafogking wrote:Most of them are mindless beast ... but some are dedicated priests...
...
It is clearly connected with light and divine powers, so why it turns people into monsters?

Alveda King wrote:Racism springs from the lie that certain human beings are less than fully human. It's a self-centered falsehood that corrupts our minds into believing we are right to treat others as we would not want to be treated.

First of all, I wanna make it crystal clear that I am by no means calling you a racist. I just wish to point out a couple of probably unintentional strains of reasoning that arise from your logic. Now that's out of the way...

The first of your sentences that I quoted implies that beast and priest are two mutually exclusive concepts, which is arguably not true.

The second sentence implies that they are, well, monsters. They are different from us, yes, but is that basis enough to call them monsters? Remember that the act of rebirth allows you to change one's appearance. I do agree that this isn't necessarily a curse but I do disagree that it would be, based on their appearance.
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plasmafogking

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#3
BobTheHollow wrote:
plasmafogking wrote:Most of them are mindless beast ... but some are dedicated priests...
...
It is clearly connected with light and divine powers, so why it turns people into monsters?

Alveda King wrote:Racism springs from the lie that certain human beings are less than fully human. It's a self-centered falsehood that corrupts our minds into believing we are right to treat others as we would not want to be treated.

First of all, I wanna make it crystal clear that I am by no means calling you a racist. I just wish to point out a couple of probably unintentional strains of reasoning that arise from your logic. Now that's out of the way...


Fiction:
1) literature in the form of prose, especially novels, that describes imaginary events and people;
2) something that is invented or untrue;
3) a belief or statement which is false, but is often held to be true because it is expedient to do so.
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#4
The Man Grub that Rosaria, cuddles is most likely Archdeacon Klimt, since his Staff is her Covenant Symbol.

Sacred seal of Archdeacon Klimt, who served Rosaria, Mother of Rebirth. Equip to pledge oneself to the Rosaria's Fingers covenant.

Rosaria's Fingers collect tongues in her name. Some do it to be reborn; others do it to help comfort their voiceless goddess



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BobTheHollow

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#5
plasmafogking, at the risk of sounding obtuse, I must say: "come again?"


dn1nd wrote:The Man Grub that Rosaria, cuddles is most likely Archdeacon Klimt, since his Staff is her Covenant Symbol.

I think Klimt is dead in Irithyll. There is a dead man grub right before the Distant Manor bonfire, holding the Great Heal miracle.

Great Heal
Glorious miracle used by high-ranking clerics. Restores a large amount of HP for self and those in the vicinity.

Only a select few have learned to recite this epic tale in its entirety, but those who do are amply rewarded.


So, a dead man grub who just so happens to be a high ranking cleric, part of a select few, say like, the archdeacons, just so happens to wash up in Irithyll. Unless there's a better explanation, I really think this is Klimt.
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Rakuyo

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#6
@bobthehollow

http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Archdeacon+Set

The (Klimt) part is added. I'm not sure what the actual reasoning was, but someone thought Klimt was more likely to have chosen Rosaria.

The most fundamental bit of lore about them is that they've been reincarnated.

Rosaria reincarnated them like that, possibly after they had been reincarnated more than five times (which is the respec limit).

I like to think they're related to the Giant Flies.

http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Giant+Fly
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BobTheHollow

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#7
Rakuyo wrote:@bobthehollow

http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Archdeacon+Set

The (Klimt) part is added. I'm not sure what the actual reasoning was, but someone thought Klimt was more likely to have chosen Rosaria.

I blame the fact that I'm really, really sleepy right now, but I don't get whether you're agreeing with me or not. I'm under the impression that you're not...
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Rakuyo

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#8
BobTheHollow wrote:
Rakuyo wrote:@bobthehollow

http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Archdeacon+Set

The (Klimt) part is added. I'm not sure what the actual reasoning was, but someone thought Klimt was more likely to have chosen Rosaria.

I blame the fact that I'm really, really sleepy right now, but I don't get whether you're agreeing with me or not. I'm under the impression that you're not...


I've looked into this very little, yet I think there's very little reason to believe the Irithyll Grub is Klimt.
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dn1nd

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#9
It may be only speculation but it makes the most sense for Klimt to be the Mangrub on Rosaria's Lap.

He abandons his Bident putting his faith in the Deep behind him as mentioned by the Saint's Bident. His new faith is to his Goddess, Rosaria who he gave his staff to. As the lore states on the Archdeacon set, Klimt attended Rosaria, most definitions I know of attend mean to be with someone or something.

Here's the definition for reference.

Attended
verb (used with object)
1.
to be present at:
to attend a lecture; to attend church.
2.
to go with as a concomitant or result; accompany:
Fever may attend a cold. Success attended her hard work.
3.
to take care of; minister to; devote one's services to:
The nurse attended the patient daily.
4.
to wait upon; accompany as a companion or servant:
The retainers attended their lord.
5.
to take charge of; watch over; look after; tend; guard:
to attend one's health.
6.
to listen to; give heed to.
7.
Archaic. to wait for; expect.
verb (used without object)
8.
to take care or charge:
to attend to a sick person.
9.
to apply oneself:
to attend to one's work.
10.
to pay attention; listen or watch attentively; direct one's thought; pay heed:
to attend to a speaker.
11.
to be present:
She is a member but does not attend regularly.
12.
to be present and ready to give service; wait (usually followed by on or upon):
to attend upon the Queen.
13.
to follow; be consequent (usually followed by on or upon).
14.
Obsolete. to wait.

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BobTheHollow

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#10
Rakuyo and dn1nd,

I believe that the biggest problem for you to accept my point of view is that there would be no reason for Klimt to be in Irithyll. So, I'd propose the following:

Put aside the corpse's location for a second. Klimt is unaccounted for and there's a dead man-grub with Great Heal on it. Wouldn't Great Heal, being privy to only a select few high ranking clerics, give this man-grub the status associated with the former Archdeacon Klimt? Now, imagine that the corpse is located inside the Cathedral of the Deep. Wouldn't this corpse be a prime candidate for being Klimt himself? I honestly, unbiased believe that the answer to these questions is "yes."

Now, let's put the corpse back in Irithyll. By looking at it your way, I'd be left with the question: "why is there a high ranking man-grub cleric dead in Irithyll?" Since this is in regards to your point of view, then I'd humbly ask that you provide an answer to this question.

In regards to my own stance, I'd first remind you that another Archdeacon from the cathedral made his way back to Irithyll, and that he also met with an untimely demise. He's currently resting at the Water Reserve. And I do hope that all of this is enough to at least make you see the possibility that that corpse belongs to Klimt, because of my second point which, well, is a much larger theory. I do believe Irithyll and Rosaria to be connected. I do not wish to overextend myself, though. So I'm hoping we can make "progress" based only on what I have presented so far.
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