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SeyroonTheMage

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#1
Some people were getting mad about potential derailment in another topic, but there was some interesting discussion going on there, so I thought I'd make this topic, so we could take the off-topic discussion here if that's all right. When we left off people were discussing objective vs subjective games evaluation, why glitches are literally features, and whether or not Sonic Adventure 2 sucks.

Carry on if you like, but try to keep it civil of course, and may the natural flow of dialog wind and bend and evolve as it may. This is a thread for gaming in general: any game in particular or none at all (ie all games in general). I'm putting this here because I checked Gaming General and almost every single thread seemed to be about a certain game specifically, while this is not (and also the original thread that spawned this one was similarly generalized, and it's allowed, so I'm guessing this one will likewise be okay).
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#2
Well, I just recently got FO4 with all the DLC for 54$ and can say that I'm glad I waited.

I've needed a game to get lost in and it's going well.

I did mess with a friends copy some time ago and I was turned away from the voice acting. So I didn't buy it for full price.
The guy sounds like a total 'bro' frat kid. It's ridiculous.
But the female voice is decent and I've noticed that even when it's cheesy, at least she still sounds kinda hot.

Silhouette-
Strength Agility Luck build.
I only use the Chinese sword (currently serrated) and do most of my kills in Vats.

It's fun and pretty powerful. And considering that I don't really care for the outdated feeling of combat, I don't mind sticking with Vats.
I love stealth and killing enemies in one shot. And it's pretty rewarding one-shotting a Deathclaw.

Currently lost on the main quest. I'm supposed to find the Railroad. Which is somewhat interesting because these games usually make things pretty clear. But this part of the quest gives me Morrowind flashbacks.

Anyone still playing?
Did voice acting ruin it for you?
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EldritchImagination

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#3
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:Currently lost on the main quest. I'm supposed to find the Railroad. Which is somewhat interesting because these games usually make things pretty clear. But this part of the quest gives me Morrowind flashbacks.


You just compared Fallout positively to Morrowind. ARE YOU INSANE?!
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
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EldritchImagination

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#4
SeyroonTheMage wrote:Some people were getting mad about potential derailment in another topic, but there was some interesting discussion going on there, so I thought I'd make this topic, so we could take the off-topic discussion here if that's all right. When we left off people were discussing objective vs subjective games evaluation, why glitches are literally features, and whether or not Sonic Adventure 2 sucks.

Carry on if you like, but try to keep it civil of course, and may the natural flow of dialog wind and bend and evolve as it may. This is a thread for gaming in general: any game in particular or none at all (ie all games in general). I'm putting this here because I checked Gaming General and almost every single thread seemed to be about a certain game specifically, while this is not (and also the original thread that spawned this one was similarly generalized, and it's allowed, so I'm guessing this one will likewise be okay).


Often, general video game discussion goes in the Random Off-Topic thread. This seems more fitting. If it catches on, prepare to have this thread grow for a long time.
Normality is a banality. Reality is a fallacy. Alter your perception, open your mind, and expand your world...with odd thoughts, eccentric beliefs, and an eldritch imagination.
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#5
EldritchImagination wrote:
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:Currently lost on the main quest. I'm supposed to find the Railroad. Which is somewhat interesting because these games usually make things pretty clear. But this part of the quest gives me Morrowind flashbacks.


You just compared Fallout positively to Morrowind. ARE YOU INSANE?!



I can understand your concern.
But it wasn't really a positive comparison as much as just a comparison. Quest markers these days make it so that you don't even have to pay attention to quest.
Whereas in Morrowind, you were just given clues and directions. This part of the quest in FO is kinda like that. I've spent 3 nights doing other random stuff hoping to stumble back on the main path, but I'm just getting dead ends.

I don't actually mind though. I don't plan to wiki it.

And as far as your last question is concerned.
Oh yes. I most definitely am.
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Forum_Pirate

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#6
I won't say the voice acting single handedly ruined Fallout 4. I will say voice acting is tied direclty to almost every major problem in fallout 4 (wether it's the cause or a cause or the effect.) My feeling on it really shouldn't surprise you, it's not as though I did articles explaining why voice acting in RPGs is a mistake and how specifically Fallout 4 made just about every mistake it's possible to make while voice acting an "RPG".

It's borderlands 2 meets minecraft in a fallout skin. It's fine for what it is (though if they wanna call it an RPG then I'm gonna judge it as an RPG and by those standards it's garbage) but if they keep to this path there is essentially 0 chance I'll ever buy a fallout game developed by Bethesda again.


Also, don't bother going back to the main story. It's actually a better story if you just hit a dead end and give up to do other things. That's how bad the main story is.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
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eremHaNeoN

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#7
I wasn't trying to make any point about glitches as features that add to gaming emergence, speedrunning or whatever other things when I made that one post, I was very simply bringing up actual bad ports with actual bad bugs and glitches not in the original game and more specifically, DotEmu who have a reputation for bad ports of arcade games to the PC and I was just questioning WHY and HOW they have access to libraries like SNK's and that they continue to get away with being as incompetent as they are. As far as I know, though no small fries in the industry, they're not exactly AAA publishers either. You'd think it'd be easier to hold them to scrutiny and for them to actually self-improve more than you'd expect from, say, Ubisoft, but evidently not because I'm continuing to read about bad port after bad port...
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#8
@Forum_Pirate

Well, what defines an RPG has been muddled over the years by so many sub-genres that take elements of RPGs yet don't focus on the elements that truly make a 'good' rpg.

I've read enough of your opinions to have at least a decent understanding of your stance on this. But if you don't mind explaining, I'm curious about what exactly FO4 lacks (excluding the voice acting) to make it a garbage RPG, which seems just a bit harsh to me.

Just curious. I don't actually get worked up over differing opinions.
Also, I've always considered FO more on the action RPG side of things. For a person that doesn't just naturally RP, I can see it lacking design wise as an RPG.
I would say that it's a very well made game regardless of how it categorized. And in the end, that's what matters to me.
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eremHaNeoN

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#9
Another thing, would this be a good place to have discussions on just "Soulsborne" in general and not necessarily a specific title? It's hard to find places where good discussions on things can be had. Dark Souls 3 is the hotspot at the moment obviously since it's the "newest," while boards for the other games in the series seem pretty much dead or barely hanging on. Discord is too much **** -post central to be productive for discussions, almost no matter where you go, YouTube comments are AIDS, Reddit isn't great either (seems people are pretty "territorial" about their particular game on each individual subreddit for each game which isn't conductive for any discussion about the series in general save maybe lore speculation) and this being the best place still has its problems, ones that I already mentioned. Traffic is most concentrated on the newer titles while the Demon's Souls board isn't highly populated, Dark Souls 1 slightly better, Dark Souls 2 slightly worse, Bloodborne OK, and Dark Souls 3 the only really proactive one.

I bring this up because now that the series has officially ended I've seen a few videos on the subject talking about the series of games as a whole, or more precisely their evolution over the years from Demon's to Dark 3 and a fair share of criticism, complaints and such about how the games changed and what they ended up becoming as their focus past Dark Souls 1. For instance Matthewmatosis and his video on "The Lost Soul Arts of Demon's Souls" which after watching I'm still confounded as to why he's so well-respected as a "critic" when it came across to me as him fanboying over Demon's Souls for being "different" without going into why the things that distinguish it are any good (like the game's tendency systems, or his love of "puzzle"/gimmick bosses over more combat-oriented ones) and just cynically trashing the later titles and mechanics like respec, because... I don't know, it's a feature a lot of people like and he's an elitist twat who thinks these games should remain obfuscating and for niche crowds only? I don't know, he doesn't explain his points well at all, meanders a bit, jumps into side topics and back again, then baffling statements like calling Bloodborne "design by committee" because it was well-marketed by Sony? Only maybe two points did he bring up any legitimate grievances with the later games, or things inherent to all the games they never fixed, but that's maybe a total of less than a minute of a 24-minute video that just rambles. His only other video I saw was for Dark Souls 2 which last I remember it I thought was poorly done, and this video doesn't make him any more endearing to me.

We've set the bar very, very low for video game criticism if this guy is supposed to be among the top dogs, not that I thought video game criticism was in a state other than sorry to begin with. Films, literature, even music and television despite their issues with some shallow or useless critics is still more robust, intelligent and informed as a whole than what we have for video games, where the best content about games comes more from long-time enthusiasts, collectors, the armchair historians (or professional, if they are making a YouTube living) than anyone else, let alone "critics." Channels like Lazy Game Reviews or Matt Barton are top-of-the-line as far as I'm concerned. "Analysis" channels from what I've seen at best are over-reaching, try-very-hard-but-miss-the-mark or at worst barely try at all and rely on shallow cynicism and non-analysis pretending to be analysis, like the impression I've gotten from the likes of Matthewmatosis.
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SeyroonTheMage

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#10
eremHaNeoN wrote:Another thing, would this be a good place to have discussions on just "Soulsborne" in general and not necessarily a specific title?

Absolutely, anything goes. I've experienced the same problems you went on to describe, too. It can be frustrating.

I haven't seen a Matthewmatosis video in years now, but I remember feeling like his original DeS analysis was very, very good. Maybe you should give him, or at least that video, a second chance.

I tend to agree with your critique on the state of games criticism. I really think it's up to the fans, especially us older ones, to take the task upon ourselves at this point. Clearly, serious in-depth evaluation isn't going to come from journalists at least. I personally hope we would be able to have at some point an ongoing discussion of (as corny as it might sound) the philosophy of games design and analysis. I think my thoughts on bugs and glitches in games from the origin thread were sort of an example of what I mean by that.
Last edited by SeyroonTheMage on Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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