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MrMoho

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Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:37 am
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#1
Magic in Dark Souls 3 is adequate, but that only after patches upon patches. Yet even after all this time tweaking and improving it countless times, it still hasn't reached a potential that one may consider a pure caster “good”, only with a lot of trickery and skill that is miles upon his opponent able to turn it into a great weapon.

Back in Dark Souls 2, I honestly think Pyromancies and Hexes had reached a potential of being great with only a very few tweaks here and there, a lot of spells, especially for Pyromancers, allowing for great combos as well as offering good variety. In Dark Souls 3 after such a long time they seem to be almost there, yet somehow still miles behind.

On top of that there are still a lot of spells that are utterly useless.

And now that we have pretty much reached the end of Dark Souls 3 and gained every last spell we will ever see, I thought it was finally time to talk about magic in this game. I won't be talking about the fact that mixing spells from different schools and the overall Ring Slots of Spellcasters is immensely handicapped with the inclusion of the rings that boost a certain school of magic... Yeah, toootally won't mention it.. But what I will say is that I find it ridicules that a lot of spells can be dodged on mid range by merely strafing the caster... without even sprinting, making spells that might be okay, well, a pile of trash.

Thus, I bring you a list of all spells, categorized in each school of magic and listed from what I think is the best spell to the worst in each, offering a description what makes this spell great, bad and a personal solution on how to make it useful. And as a note, this will be all obviously my personal opinion. I'm saying up front so I must not plaster IMO's everywhere. Buffs are listed in the third post below this one, since I have reached the character limit.. Plus, this point of view is heavily focused on PvP. In PvE... Well, spells are already kinda broken, especially Pyromancies

Alas, let us begin with the... Ranking of Spells in Dark Souls 3!

Pyromancy

This school might very well be the most potent one out there and was so more or less from the very start, although it never was truly great. It is the one type of magic that allows for a somewhat decent combo-ability, even if it isn't as great as it was back in DS2. But, what did carry over was that it is most effective at close and mid-range, anything further than that utterly destroying it if one is not smarter than his foe. An offhand weapon isn't really necessary since Pyromancy has so many melee range spells, anyways, though it can be used to save spellslots.

Flame Surge

Well, well, we actually start off with the one and only spell of which I might say that it is broken. Not just overpowered, no, straight up broken. Why? Well, it creates a constant wave of fire with surprisingly good range that deals not too much damage, but more than a Throwing Knife, for sure. But why is it broken then, you ask? Well, it cast really fast, can be interrupted with very little delay, has perfect tracking and is really cheap and constant, making it impossible to approach the caster without taking damage. It would put Throwing Knifes to shame in term of obnoxious finishers if it had just as much range or was just as flexible in the ways one can attack with it. Yes, it is rather obvious when it gets cast, yes, it can be avoided by just staying away, but honestly, it is so fast to cast that it is really easy to just fry the opponent here and there with a quick blast to wither down their health slowly. And when it comes to finishing the other, the Pyromancer can chase a person down and corner them easily.

A fix? Good question, as I can barely think of anything that makes it fair without turning it into crap. The closest I could get would be less tracking as the enemy runs around the Pyromancer, maybe make it so that it has a greater delay before you can roll again after stopping the cast, forcing the Pyromancer to use it more tactically. Though both option would probably make it stiff and awkward to use. Huh, this was a really disappointing start, wasn't it?

Chaos Bed Vestige

Now here we have a spell of which I actually have no problem with whatsoever. No, really, this spell is great. It's incredibly fast to cast, deals an immensely high amount of damage and adds a fire whirlwind around the fireball you lunge that makes it unable to merely strafe around it! I don't even need to say anything more since it is the one Pyromancy I have absolutely zero issues with. Oh, a little fun fact, however: This spell is quite a bit cheaper to cast than both Crystal Soul Spear and Sunlight Spear, yet it deals at least over 100 more damage on a familiar spell buff. And yes, that will be an upcoming complaint!

Black Flame/Great Combustion/Combustion

These spell were actually pretty crappy once. Black Flame is too stiff and narrow to roll catch, too slow to interrupt an opponents attack before he smacks you, too weak to win a trade (What combustion was the master of back in DS2) and, well, too slow to even get to trade most of the time. It is the same with Great Combustion, making it still to this day completely outclassed by Black Flame, though the Weapon Art Combustion was quick enough to interrupt people or even roll catch, funnily enough turning it into the best of the bunch. The one thing they all had going was that they were quite spammable, though that was only useful against other spammers... Or stupid folks.

Now, what changed? Nothing. They are still bad by their lonesome, but thankfully were they redeemed by not a patch boosting them, but a new Pyromancy Flame getting introduced! The Pyromancers Parting Flame has this one little fun quirk that makes it shoot out a little Combustion-like flame out before casting any spell... And boy, is it great! It basically turns every Black Flame into a double-combustion, the first blast of fire able to roll catch and even able to interrupt attacks effectively, the following Black Flame able to hit (unless it was a roll catch, in which case they are often out of range)! And even better, the combine damage makes it stronger than a single blast from a more powerful normal Pyromancer flame! Seriously, put the Parting Flame in one hand and cast all your Black Flames with it while casting the rest with a regular Pyromancer flame in your other hand.

Great Chaos Fire Orb

Now, a lot of people say this spell is just as good as Chaos Bed Vestige... I say “Yes, if you are good at free-aiming”. Now, with this spell you throw a Fireball in a small arc that deals great damage and that explodes into a pool of lava upon impact, the combined power of ball and lava making it about as strong as a Chaos Bed Vestige. Though, there are problems that hold it back, something that plagues all Fireballs. The projectile is rather slow, does take a bit more time to cast than a Chaos Bed Vestige and has very little homing, meaning it is, as so many spells, pretty easy to strafe-dodge. This problem can be fixed with free-aiming, of course, an opponent that even avoids the initial blast can still take damage that way from the lava ground.

Honestly, all it needs (as so many spells) is a bit more homing so one cannot avoid it by walking sideways at mid-range. Again, that can be fixed by free-aiming, but that should be a pro-tactic against rolling foes, not be a necessary skill required to use this orb adequately.

Flame Fan

This was probably introduced to give the Pyromancer a spell similar to Farron's Flash Sword. It causes the caster to swing a decently sized fan up to three times left and right. It can combo up to two times and, strangely, the first time you hit with it it staggers your opponent like a kick does, causing the second swing to deal extra damage, making it about as strong as a Parting Flame Black Flame. Honestly, it isn't that great, unable to roll catch too swell, it's pretty slow and the damage is just okay. On its own, it better than a Black Flame, however, but not with the Parting Flame used. But hey, it can be a decent alternative to it, though getting both is pointless.

A slightly higher swing speed should work out for this spell.

Black Serpent

“So low?” you might be asking yourself right now, and yes, so low. Now let me explain why: Black Serpent is a starter, a setup spell, and one that is rather meh on its own, only seeing its potential when used together with any of the spells above. As you may know by now, like everybody, it causes a dark flame to slither across the ground, trying to home in on whoever was in your focus last. Getting hit by this spell staggers one long enough that an immediate followed up Chaos Bed Vestige or Fireball of your liking and even a Black Flame is able to hit without being able to dodge. And that is its one and only use. By itself it deals rather low damage, is very obvious when it gets cast, and is not too hard to dodge (although the hitbox is pretty wacky). Now, now, before anyone gets mad: Yes, it is totally fine right now, but I still would prefer a little boost...

It does not need a boost in its damage, as it is merely a setup spell, but I do still have a problem with its initial tracking. You see, it always starts off going straight forward from the caster. That means that the curve it does often is really ineffective. It should start with pointing towards the target in an 180° angle in front of the caster, no matter that ones position as he fists the floor, only those behind him not getting properly chased by this spell. That way it should allow this evil snake to more effectively home in on targets.

Seething Chaos

I am still not quite sure were to put this spell. It causes you to throw a fireball that stick to any object you cannot interact with, slowly building up before exploding. It deals more damage than a direct hit of a Chaos Bed Vestige, actually. It is pretty obvious how to use this spell: Use it as a sort of timed mine or as a mind-game safe zone. But it just takes soooo long for it to explode! I know, any timer can be used effectively in different situations with these type of things, but here we have a very set timer that one can learn, therefore counter really easily if it is used as a safe zone. And it sucks as a surprise mine since it is so incredibly loud and can be seen through walls due to how large it gets. Still, I won't deny that it is a delight whenever somebody gets hit by the explosion, especially when they don't realize what it is. You can have two active at a time, which is good enough

The time it takes to explode probably needs to get lowered. Probably.

Acid Surge

Once the worst spell ever, it got turned into something crazy and back into something... Alright. This spell does what it has to do: Creating a temporary safe zone while also obscuring the caster. Toxic and Poison Mist do he same, yet is Acid Surge a bit more effective at it, as foes are less likely to approach it. The obvious reason is because they can't see it affect them, not quite sure if their gear will break or not if they get in it. It does what it does, not to mention that broken gear is far less desirable than even death. No real need to change it since it can be used effectively by everybody, although does it never become amazing.

Toxic/Poison Mist

Same as Acid Surge, except that opponents are more likely to approach it regardless since they see how it affects them and because they most likely have a Moss on hand. Still, it isn't that much worse and can be used on Poison builds rather fine.

Floating Chaos

This spell is fine, but it could be better. It creates a floating ball of fire that shoots up to three projectiles. It takes a while to cast, so it is almost necessary to create a safe zone for oneself before casting it. Also, the damage is pretty bad, only reaching as much as a tick of Flame Surge per bolt fired. But it is nice to have sometimes as it adds more pressure to an opponent, making it more likely for him to make a mistake. Regardless, I'd say it could need a buff.

Either the time it takes to cast could be lower so one can effectively have two up at a time with a safe zone created or the damage must be higher so it deals at least a bit over 100 damage with, say, one damage ring equipped and like a spell buff of around 200.

Profaned Flame

Now we come to the spells I consider actually bad and not just okay, and god, what a drop it is. Profaned Flame really tries to be good, it does, but man, does it fail. It creates a little vortex of fire next to your target that explodes shortly after it is fully gone, knocking them over. It casts pretty fast and has good range and smacking somebody on their back can be useful, but there is just something holding it really back. The explosion isn't that strong and oddly small, even if people tell me it's oddly big, and while the little initial vortex does follow the target, it does so pretty slowly. It has the same problem Seething Chaos soon will have, and that is that people have learned the timing it takes to dodge it. In this game, there is hardly anything a Pyromancer can use to combo into this spell or vice-versa. It can't even obscure what you do as it did in DS2!

First, the explosion needs to be bigger, second, the visuals need to be more intense. With that I mean it needs more flame, look more dangerous, blinding, even, because that was why it was pretty decent in DS2! That way it will obscure you since people get distracted by the fire like a moth drawn to flame! Also, it should probably follow target slightly more. That way, it might become a decent at setting up other spells like back in DS2!

Black Fire Orb/Fire Orb/Fireball

These are bad, plain and simple. Slow, stiff, weak (At least in PvP. Not so much in PvE). Funny, how just an added lava pool turns a fireball into a great spell, hm? These balls have the same problem as the Great Chaos Fire Ball, only that they have nothing unique to offer. They are all incredibly easy to dodge and, what I absolutely don't get, they all have the same. Casting. Speed. Why? No, really, why? It's not even that they all cap at a certain speed modifier. Nope, a Fireball is just as slow as a Great Chaos Fire Orb at zero extra casting speed.

That needs to change. The smallest ball should be the fastest and it should rank up all the way to the Black Fire Orb and Great Chaos Fire Orb with them keeping their current speed. Also, increased homing, as I already said with the Great Chaos Fire Orb.

Sacred Flame

Glitches made this spell broken, fixes made it bad. The concept is pretty simple: You cast a rather slow melee-range spell that immediately grabs your opponent into a critical hit. Sadly, to not make this spell broken, it is so slow that it's easy for any non-fool to get out of range easily while throwing anything at you for your trouble. Either that or they interrupt you with a smack to the face. It has this fun quirk were when it clips an opponent, they take quite a bit of damage still, and it grabs people through a raised shield, but that is hardly enough to make it any good.

First, it needs some sort of poise. Sadly, the chime to flame trick no longer exists, so it needs some for itself... Like giving the Witch Hair Chime Unfaltering Prayer (making that thing actually bloody useful). Secondly, what would be a cool idea is to have it work instantly if cast at an opponent that is inside a Parry/Guard Break stagger, giving a Pyromancer essentially a way to Riposte people without a weapon.

Boulder Heave

This is another one of those really hard to rank ones. You cough up a massive boulder that explodes in a decently sized AoE. It knocks over any enemies and deals okay damage. The range is rather lackluster and so is the casting speed. A fun fact is that the boulder falls down straight forever, allowing for some creative ambushes when spat down an elevator pit while it is in use. Past that? Meh, I really see no proper use for this spell as it is easily dodged.

I suppose it would benefit from a faster casting speed, maybe a slightly faster projectile, too.

Flame Whip

How people can say this is a good spell is beyond me. It cast a surge of fire in front of you that staggers people. That's it. This spell was miles better in DS2, in which it actually had some tracking during the cast and the swinging motion of your characters hand actually caused it to, y'know, swing around like a whip, instead of being a fire blast straight forward. I know you can hit somebody with a melee weapon when you catch them in it, but god, this thing is stiff as hell.

You know what is a better Flame Whip than the Flame Whip? The weapon art of the Follower Torch! Wide, sweeping arc of fire, great damage and it can be interrupted midway through. This spell could really take some notes from it. Like, seriously, I almost want to say to turn Flame Whip into a spell form of that Weapon Art. At the very least does it need a wider casting arc and some bloody tracking!

Bursting Fireballs

Oh boy, this spell. Now, it throws a fireball that explodes into many tiny balls, covering a big area. It's there to be a roll catcher like Farron Hail, just for Pyromancers. Yes. It sounds like it could be useful. The theory behind it is sound. But this spell is... so bad. First off, it can be dodge by strafing. Glorious. Secondly, this spell, unlike Faron Hail, is only one wave of projectiles. One wave that can be dodged with a single roll. Third, it deals about as much damage as a single tick of a Flame Surge.

How to fix this thing? Well, there is one interesting idea. Instead of having it explode in one direction, have the fireballs burst in a full 360° circle. That way, the projectiles will actually follow a rolling opponent, increasing the chance of catching them in the middle of it. And that's it, really. One simple change like that can make this spell useful as a roll catcher. Well, the damage could also be a bit higher.

Fire/Chaos Storm

And here we have it, as spell that I consider even worse than Bursting Fireball, maybe even the new worst spell of DS3. Because, with Bursting Fireball, you might actually hit somebody. With this thing? No. If you ever hit somebody in a 1 vs. 1 match with this spell, you are a liar. If you hit somebody during an invasion with it, they were absolute buffoons. Yet this spell still does as it did since Demon Souls. Summon pillars of flame from the ground randomly around you. It was sound back then, hit its peak in DS2 due to the fact that the pillars still erupted even when interrupted in the middle of it. But here? It takes so painstakingly long to cast, your movement is stiff as hell during the casting time and it is sooooo incredibly obvious that you cast that spell because of your animations and that loud wooshing sound that emits when daring to use this thing. You will never hit anybody with it. Ever. You will either get interrupted, get backstabbed, the enemy will run away or god knows what else. Everything but hit your opponent. Let's just jump to the fix already, talking about this spell depresses me...

Easy. Increase the casting time. Drastically. This thing has no business taking like 3 seconds to cast at full cast speed. Due to the speed of DS3, pretty much anything can smack you out of it. Also, why do you need to channel every single pillar? It really should work like in DS2, where when you cast it once, all of them will come out, even when getting interrupted in the middle of it! That at least does not completely waste the experience and allows you to retreat!




Miracles

An assortment of spells for those considering themselves holier than Gwynevere's cleavage, this school of magic focuses on healing and support spells, though does it have a good amount of miracles that deal lightning or simply physical damage! It's... oddly effective when used for offense, but only because of like three spells. It's nothing grandiose, but pretty okay... Well, still bad when compared to most other stuff. The main reason it is so mind-blowingly decent is due to the Weapon Art Unfaltering Prayer of Talisman. It makes half of the otherwise useless spells useful! However, due to that, users of this school are required more than any to get some durability going, as in life and armour... What in turn makes it kinda ****, because that's almost impossible to get if you still want to be an adequate caster.

Lightning Arrow

When I first looked at this spell, I didn't think it was anything special. Just an on the go bow for Faith builds to use. But boy, I was wrong. Dead wrong. It creates a bow made out of frickin' electricity, firing an incredibly fast projectile with homing! Wow, it's like a bow that is actually useful! And useful it is, as it deals more damage than any bow, too! And it's really cheap to use unlike many other miracles! And it is the only spell in the game that can roll catch that isn't ******* like Flame Surge! And it is great at comboing with other spells. Do I have any more and's? Oh yes, as you also can give yourself poise through Unfaltering Prayer with it! This is perfect to just plaster your enemy with, getting some nice shots in here and there, combo with spells, even use it as a non-pure spellcaster! There are only ups here!

Lightning Storm

Oh look, the one and only true safe zone spell. The Rust/Toxic/Poison Cloud spells miiight count, but those don't hurt people. This one does. A lot. After several patches, this spell became amazing. Pretty fast casting speed, great damage, and three 360° waves of electricity blasting out around you! It has great combo potential with Lighting Arrow and even Melee Weapons, though does it take luck... Like 50% of the Miracles of DS2! It deals a bit over 300 damage per hit, though does it often zap your opponent twice, sometimes even thrice, turning it into a devastating spell! Need a breather, a pause to drink an Ashen Estus or just want your enemy to kindly 'bolt' off? Then this spell is your friend!

It is pretty expensive and requires 2 spell slots, but I'd say that is only fair!

Lightning Stake

The Meleenator of spells. This spell is actually trash without Unfaltering Prayer, so make sure to always use it in conjunction with it. It causes the caster to smash the ground with a massive bolt of lightning, exploding in a big boom of thunder and dealing great damage... If the foe gets caught by a direct hit. Otherwise, it still can hit your opponent with the explosion for decent damage. It's pretty good, really. Though, it is best used as a follow up. Casted Lightning Storm, but your opponent rolled through it and next to you? Lightning Stake. Your enemy managed to avoid your Lightning Arrow and is about to roll into melee range? Lightning Stake. Always answer anybody approaching after a cast (or even melee attack) with this spell. Simple.

The speed got boosted multiple times, though the recovery is still takes a while and really should be shortened a little bit. And, as almost all Miracles, it costs a looot of FP. Maybe needs to get softened there, too.

Force

Creates a shockwave that knocks people over. Simple and fun, though, like in any other Souls game, just really mediocre. There is no change required here to the mechanics. It's there to get people off you, be it as a caster or as any character that bothers to get 12 Faith, really. Might allow you to set up something while your opponent takes a nap on the floor. Maybe. Although, there is one issue I have with it...

Why does it cost 26 FP? That is ridicules. Force was always this spammable, rather non-threatening spell, and now it is far too expensive to use for a school that already is plagued with overly costly magic. This needs to reduces to like 15 FP per cast, seriously.

Lightning/Great Lightning/Sunlight Spear

And thus we take a deep plummet down into the abyss of trashy spells. That was quick. Oh, you are trying to tell me these spells are great? Well, Sunlight Spear might be in PvE, but in PvP this has to be the worst “big boom” spell of each class (The others being Chaos Bed Vestige and Crystal Soul Spear). The biggest reason it's awful? The ludicrous cost of each spell. I don't even feel the need to say why Lightning/Great Lightning Spear is trash. They are weaker versions that still cost a small fortune worth of FP, Lightning Spear being so bad when you find it you are better off using your fists, and Great Lightning Spear requiring you to offer 30 Sunlight Medals to the Sunlight Warrior covenant. Not that you ever want to get it, since the damage is laughable for the FP costs. And Sunlight Spear? Well, it might have this interesting perk that causes it to deal 66% more damage when smacking somebody in melee range with it, and the projectile is really fast... But that's about it. No homing to speak of, surprisingly **** damage for such high FP costs when not melee smacking and, despite haven gotten its speed buffed, still really slow and obvious. I'm sorry, but I can't get over the fact how weak the projectile is. Chaos Bed Vestige deals 30% more on a similar Spell Buff. Christ...

This spell won't be fixed easily. First, why was it pretty good in DS2? Well, it caused a little shockwave of electricity wherever it hit the ground, dealing a bit of damage on top of the main blast. And that was really great. And this spell really could use it. Hell, because the damage is so 'shockingly' crappy, I'd say to just straight up add it, so both hit at the same time at a direct hit, while the shockwave might rollcatch folks if the main bolt misses. Just don't cause the shockwave to happen during those melee strikes and we are all good! I even would say that the FP does not need to decrease if you add that shockwave!... Though, I probably still would think to reduce it to like 40 FP.

Divine Pillars of Light

Or the actually usable Flame Storm. It casts faster, though is it not any less obvious, summoning pillars of light around you, dealing okay physical damage. You won't be hitting anybody unless you corner them, Unfaltering Prayer actually allowing you to go through with the cast. However, Lightning Storm is so much better than this that I really see no reason to use it. That's really it. I don't even think it needs a fix, it just is completely outclassed by a different spell.

I guess it could use a faster casting time, nothing else.

Wrath of the Gods

Another spell that has fallen from grace oh so much. You very obviously charge up a giant explosion of physical damage. It knocks people over and the damage is bleh. Recent buffs increased the spellcasting speed (I think) and increased mobility while charging it up. It's slow and expensive, like so many miracles and requires 2 spell slots to top it all of.

Pretty obvious what to fix here. A lot faster casting, at least half a second or more. And maybe less FP costs.

Lifehunt Scythe

I guess this is here? Honestly, these last couple spells are so horrendous that I am starting to have trouble ranking them. This causes you to summon a Scythe made out of Dark Energy and lunge forward. The damage is okay, but it is oh so obvious and really easy to avoid. Another thing is that it deals Dark Damage, and anything used that is a Hex of sorts, unless it is a Pyromancy, deals really bad damage if not used with a proper catalyst... Which for Miracles always requires a mixture of Faith and Intelligence. And soooome rings disallow this spell to be used together with Dark Sorcery's and Pyromancy's properly *cough* *cough*. That's one reason it's bad, but the other, well, the healing effect it grants, that might explain the overall stiffness, is far, faaaar too low to even be bothered with when deciding to use this spell or not, even when used on groups.

The life absorb needs to be drastically increased, and to not make that effect overpowered in PvE scenarios, merely cause the health gain to cap at a certain number. Also, more damage and a bit faster attack speed (not casting speed, mind you).

Gnaw/Dorhy's Gnaw

A slow, stiff, straight forward projectile that deals only up to 200-300 damage on the stronger version that has a high bleed build-up which miiiight cause bleeding in a single hit... Though probably not. I mean, if Dorhy's Gnaw always would cause bleed, it would give it almost as much damage as a Chaos Bed Vestige, which might make it useful. But it doesn't. The hitbox is wide and kinda wacky, but really, it is no rocket science to dodge it. Overall just bad spells.

Faster casting speed required and homing capabilities... I mean, the Gnaw of those Evangelists has such amazing tracking, why can't my Gnaw have that?!

Way of White Corona

This might be the first DLC spell from any Souls game that truly is ****. Funny how it came from the worst Souls DLC, huhuhehahoho!... Though, obvious hate-mail attracting jokes aside, this spell truly is ****. It has a unique gimmick: You throw a disc at your opponent, said disc returning to you after hovering in the air for a while. There are several thing keeping this thing back, however. First, the abysmal damage. Secondly, this disc tends to hit walls or the floor if it goes uphill even a little. This makes this spell infuriating to use, as it obviously won't return to you when smashing against the wall. Yet it returns to you no problem through any object... Well, not directly, but the hitbox seems to be smaller, kinda. Probably just my imagination. Honestly, you will always misjudge how far this disc actually flies. And if you hit somebody at all with it, you quickly will discover how horrendous the damage is.

The damage must be increased by 50%. Anything less is unacceptable. Secondly, there should be a way to keep it from smacking against walls all the time. Like, reduce the distance it still travels when passing its target, maybe even just allow it to go through walls? Hmmm...

Emit Force

Oh boy, this one is actually a classic in how terrible it is. Surprisingly, the casting speed is decent since a couple patches ago... But the damage ain't, nor is the projectile speed. Another spell that has zero tracking, by the way, thus making aiming with this thing a nightmare. It's really hard to judge how big the actual explosion is, too. And the Damage... Oh boy. It's stronger than the Corona, actually, but... It's so, so much harder to hit with, mainly due to how slow the projectile flies. It knocks people over on range, though, I guess, so, uh, that's something... Oh, it also costs 20 FP. For comparison, Great Soul Arrow costs 10.

FP cost needs to be reduced to like 15, maybe less. The projectile speed needs to be, let's say, doubled. The damage can be increase by around 50%. Also, the casting speed needs a slight increase, still. Maybe then it might crawl out of it's dishonorable title of “Worst spell of Dark Souls 3”... Though, I don't even consider this spell worse than Flame Storm...

Edit: There is one thing I forgot to mention... It has feature that causes it to deal full damage on a direct hit, yet only 33% on a indirect one. There should be no indirect hit mechanic. It should always deal full damage when it hits!




Sorcery

The one type of magic I at first expected to be the best without question. It offers the most variety of spells, they all deal great damage, there are multiple items boosting Sorcery past those rings and there are multiple weapons that allow to cast Sorcery's on their Strong Attack... Then I tried it out more in depths and boy howdy, a pure Sorcerer is still as stiff and poopy as back in DS2 when not using one of those aforementioned weapons. Quite simple: It lacks spells that flow into each other nicely. Lightning Storm is great followed up by Lightnign Arrow or Lightning Stake, Black Serpent with Chaos Bed Vestige and Black Flame etc. Here, there's nothing really. Just like in DS2! Bloody hell... I mean, this class has by far the least straight up awful spells, but does it have often more trouble than others because there is just nothing to combo with!

Farron Dart/Great Farron Dart

It was actually kinda hard to determine what spell might be number one, but I had to give it to Farron Dart... Or Great Farron Dart, 'cause it's a straight up upgrade! This is pretty much an upgrade to the Throwing Knife, which is already the most obnoxious thing ever. And here we got something that is even more annoying! Yaay! You fire tiny bolts in quick succession, each dealing around 80 damage if you are a pure Sorcerer. You can roll attack and sprint attack, albeit both are slower than simply standing still and casting it. Pretty swell spell, I must say. Always carry one around, even if you are just an Int-hybrid!

Soul Arrow/Great Soul Arrow

Again, Great Soul Arrow is the real champ here, Soul Arrow only in your allocated spells until you get to Orbeck. You fire a fast magic missile that has good tracking. It's fast, deals very nice damage for its speed and cost only 10 FP. A champ on both PvE and PvP... Though, the homing capabilities are too bad to hit a strafing foe at mid range... Buuut it would be fine... If there was one other spell that could strafe-catch. What isn't fine that it can't really roll catch folks that roll at you because you can't shoot it straight down... Which sucks.

Allow to shoot it straight down, damn it!

Heavy Souls Arrow/Great Heavy Soul Arrow

A slower cast, but muuuch more powerful Soul Arrow. It's the same mechanic only that it is slower. Really amazing at taking down bosses or poor PvP enemies messing up their roll!... If they aren't rolling at your feet. Same problem as with Great Souls Arrow, otherwise amazing Sorcery! Oh, fun fact, this deals about 40 less damage than a Soul Spear at about the same casting speed... And this spell costs 18 FP less...

Farron Hail

A sweet roll catcher! You fire waves of magic darts out in front of you. A patch made the spread out in a cone, turning this spell from crap to good stuff! The damage is also fine for what it does. And since the nerf to Carthus Blood Ring, people can't roll through it towards you anymore! Needs some skill in free aiming to reach its full potential, however.

Homing Soulmass/Homing Crystal Soulmass

A Souls classic and it still does exactly the same as back in Demon Souls. It summons five floating orbs around your head that fly towards the next best enemy in front of you. Key word being in front, because enemies behind you won't get targeted. That allows for some quirky tactics of backstepping towards your foe so it doesn't go off prematurely or just to play mindgames. Another funny thing to do is spin in circles, this causing only one or two projectiles to go off with each spin, firing them one after another that way. It's usefulness is also still as in any other Souls game. It's better to have than not. It doesn't get in the way of anything, thus only having potential of doing something of worth. Still, easy to dodge, but almost devastating when all five hit. No change needed, they're good.

Snap Freeze

Oh my, a Cloud spell for Sorcerers, and it is better than all of them!... In terms of range, covered area and even casting speed! Too bad it builds up the most non-threatening status effect in the whole game. I mean, it isn't the spells fault that frostbite sucks, so I won't yell at it for it. Otherwise, great spell!

Dark Edge

Darn it, this spell could be good, it could! It causes you to summon a giant, dark blade that you smash down horizontally into the ground. It has perfect tracking, thus turning it into one of the few spells one cannot strife away from, even when sprinting! On top of that it got great damage, good range, decent speed and it flattens folks, allowing for a small breather! The problem? The school of Sorcery offers no spells that mesh well with this one. This thing needs a set up, yet there is nothing that can set this thing up! It would work so much better with Pyromancies, but nooo, those rings disallow me to have interracial connections! God damn it...

Farron Flashsword

When first making this list, I almost considered putting this up at number one, until I realized something... Well, it causes a magical sword to form at the tip of your catalyst and your character swings it around like a Straight Sword. The range is actually effected by what staff you use, reaching ridicules ranges with the Immolation Tinder and Izalith Staff. But, well... You want to know what is stronger than this spell by far? Any Straight Sword that isn't broken, for example. They all deal around twice the damage of this flashy magic blade, even at full extra cast speed and 60 intelligence. Also, I swear that you can only hit an enemy once with this thing, allowing no comboing at all. The rolling attack might be really fast, and that makes it a bit more useful, but honestly, just put a Straight Sword in one hand and use any spell but this one in the other.

The main attack and sprinting attack needs a buff in damage. A drastic one. The rolling attack maybe only a slight one due to its incredible speed.

Great Soul Dregs

While I do rank it below Farron Flashsword, I don't think this needs a buff. Since it acts just like a Great Deep Soul, I will explain the functions there. This is just a much, much more powerful version that takes longer to cast. The reason it is so low is the same why Dark Edge is held back: There is just no good setup spells amongst Sorcery's. It works quite well together with Dark Serpent, though will Black Serpent be weaker than on a Pyromancer for a little, round reason, thus making Chaos Bed Vestige pretty much a better combo option, but it is a point to consider!

Soul Spear/Crystal Soul Spear

I hope you read underneath the Great Heavy Souls Arrow why Soul Spear is already on the trash list, but let's talk about Crystal Soul Spear. A massive bolt of magic that penetrates targets and thus allows to hit multiple foes. Its gimmick rarely comes into play, even in PvE, thus turning that up pretty much mute. The damage is great, but still about 10% weaker than a Chaos Bed Vestige while costing around 33% more FP. Also, it's slower than it. I will give it two things: It actually slightly homes in on the target. Also, it is really hard to judge when to dodge this thing. Often when you think it's time to roll you will already have been hit.

Soul Spear and Crystal Soul Spear both need to be cheaper and deal a bit more damage... Though, maybe it does not need more damage because Sorcerers get so much extra damage from gear. Hmm... Still needs to cost less FP, though.

Deep Soul/Great Deep Soul

One of those spells that tries to be good but kinda fails. It deals great damage (the Great version, at least), is very, very fast to cast and is incredibly cheap in terms of FP costs. Really reminds me of Dark Orb from DS2 because of that. However, the projectile speed is incredibly slow, speeding up after a couple of seconds when cast. The concept is that it is slow but it homes in on targets much better than any other spell... Only it doesn't. Seriously, mid-range strafing can dodge this spell. That is unacceptable. Also, rolling at your feet, even if it would be a messed up roll otherwise, will cause the spell to promptly arc over the enemies head.

The tracking needs to be increased. Not drastically, but a decent amount. Hell, to make even Deep Soul useful lets increase the tracking of that one drastically, making it a finisher equally good as Great Farron Dart. Lore reason could be they home worse the heavier the dreg gets, I dunno...

Old Moonlight

One of those things hard to judge. It's pretty much an upgraded version of Soul Greatsword or the DS3 version of Dark Greatsword. You swing a blade of magic that fires a wide projectile. This one also got this gimmick of being able to charge up for extra damage, also allowing to hold the spell at the same time. I rank it this low because it is easy to dodge due to, again, a complete lack of setup spells. And with this one you won't even be able to use Black Serpent unless you want to gimp some stats into faith... Not that Black Serpent is a good setup spell for this thing, anyways.

Now how to fix this thing... I don't know, introduce a Sorcery that works fine as a starter? Either that or make it faster to cast/swing.

White Dragon Breath

Or also called the friend of the free-aimer. Well, not really. More like the acquaintance of the free-aimer. You fire a beam that forms a row of crystals. It does not curve whatsoever, though is it fast and has good range. If you are good at hitting people with the Weapon Art of the Tailbone Short Sword, you are good at hitting with this thing. Deals okay damage. It just requires a far too high skill level at something that already is next tier level of Souls play as well as good prediction skills and a good portion of luck to be useful.

Crystal Hail

I wonder how many people read the previous spells and were totally thinking to themselves that this is a starter in the school of Sorceries that allows for setups. It could very well be, but here is just a single problem. Well, first, this spell causes three waves of magical projectiles rain down from the sky, some slightly homing in on the target. The problem is, when hitting your opponent, they don't stun him. He takes roughly as much damage as from a single Great Farron Dart and... That's about it. I mean, really? Right now, you can pretty much only use it as a sort of finisher... Something Farron Dart is far better at.

The fix is pretty simple: The projectiles need to stun your opponent, even just a little. Also, the homing of the projectiles could be increased a bit.

Affinity

Another one of those 'Fallen from grace'-types, eh? The gimmick is as ever. You cast five floating Humanity-looking ghosts around your head that will home in on your target. Just like Homing Soulmass, it won't trigger unless facing your opponent. Same tactics apply here. Only problem here is that it's... Incredibly slow, expensive, and the one upside it has over Homing Soulmass is laughable. It homes in on your target, sure, but is it so stiff compared to previous titles that it's almost negligible. What really kills it is how slow the projectiles fly. Would be only fair and almost favorable if the tracking was better, but it is bad, so nope. I mean, I can almost understand why. This spell was notorious for it's tracking in DS1 and 2, so they probably reduced it. However, due to the much faster combat speed in this game, this crippled it faaar more than they probably anticipated.

The tracking needs to get increased. Not amazingly so, but definitely a decent amount.

Soul Stream

This is pretty low, I know, strange... Though, would you find it even stranger when I say this spell does not need a fix? The reason it is here is because in Duels, this is a complete waste, but in multi-PvP and during invasions... Boy, this thing is fun! After a long charge-up you fire a massive beam of magic that deals a ton of damage! The beam is instant and has immense range, funnily enough allowing you to sniper people pretty decently. It does what it does. Useless in duels, lots of fun anywhere else!

Soul Greatsword

You swing a big magic sword in a big arc. Was great it DS2, here, it's bleh. It looks much less flashy and is so much weaker. Also, it seems rather slow for the combat speed of DS3. I mean, I might consider this to be the worst Sorcery, but it isn't sooooo bad. Still, pretty bad. Again, lacks any real good combo-ability and deals low damage.

Needs a boost in damage. Also, probably a faster animation for the when readying to swing the blade.


And thus, we reached the end. Of course, it isn't just spells that greatly holds back pure spellcasters, but also the abundance of rings and stats required when compared to a simple melee build. However, these buffs would be one step towards a effective spellcaster in Dark Souls 3!

Also, will me posting this months after the final DLC change anything? Probably not. But still, I had to get at least my opinion out on why I consider magic so lackluster. I enjoy playing a pure caster and I truly wanted them to be a useful alternative when compared to a melee since Dark Souls 1.

Agree or disagree? Got other ideas on how to improve these spells? Think I was way to lenient on most of them, even? Let me know!
Last edited by MrMoho on Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:14 am, edited 3 times in total.

Achtpuntzes

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#2
i looked up a couple of spells, and i notice u are not familiar with them. u whine about some of the greatest spells, and overlooking things like the extra 67% hitbox u do with the (sunlight) spear from close, and the ability to cast them with talismans that grant huge poise.

then i counted the listed spells, there are 30 pyromacies and i see only 18, for example.

when i have the time i will read the whole article, and give my opinion, the opinion of a really experienced spellcaster (except pure magic spells, as i only did pure faith, pyro and dark sorcerer yet)

but one thing i have to say, pure spellcasting pvp really shines around sl 60 +6-+8 upgrade. then u can reach the hardcap for max damage output, and people dont have much elemental resistances yet, so lots of things will oneshot your opponent with the right equipment. also notice that the gap between +6 and a +10 spelltool is rather small at hardcap stat.
but if u bring your pure spellcaster to meta it loosens alot power as you do only slightly more damage with a +10 upgraded spelltool and people have way more hp, defences and elemental resistances.

so, i dont agree.

just stay low sl, go pure (leave everything else at base and go for hardcap whatever your attacking stat is) and your spellcaster will do great.
Last edited by Achtpuntzes on Thu May 18, 2017 8:08 am, edited 4 times in total.
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build

SeyroonTheMage

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#3
Cool thread. I don't know if I'll ever get around to reading all of it, but I guess for now I just want to say I approve of this topic.

MrMoho

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#4
Buffs and Support Spells

Well, I thought I wanted to make an extra thread about this at first, but it is probably best to just place it right below the previous. I'd like to say before that parts of my reason that I didn't do this outright was because... Well, I am not super familiar with a lot of these spells. Some are just... weird, to say the least, especially in the way they function. For example: You might expect a 10% increase of damage with one buff, and it does against PC enemies, yet you only gain around roughly 6% against players. This wouldn't even make sense in an “Oh, that's just the defense reducing it”, because your damage you dealt before already got reduced by defense and by laws of math would you expect that already reduced damage to increase by 10%- Sorry, bad conversations of the past. And then there is that fact that Duel Charm just completely removes any buff you got even though buffs actually aren't broken for once in this Souls game!

There is also pretty much this whole feeling of... Eh, they are often better than nothing. I mean.. As a Knight starting class, pretty much the default melee physical build class, you get one spell-slot right away, so might as well fill it with a buff of sorts. Thus, I don't know if they require too much critique.

Regardless, a buff shouldn't be useless, and definitely not overpowered!... Pfff, wow, I almost couldn't finish that. Overpowered buffs in DS3, woooo boy!... E-Erm, anyways, let us begin!

Pyromancy

There's surprisingly little stuff going on here. I mean, there often wasn't much stuff happening with buffs in the school of Pyromancy, but in DS3, the low amount of it getting used to buff must be a new record low!... W-Well, here we go!

Rapport

The only reason it is number one is because this spell does exactly what it says on the tin, and majesticly so. Of course, in any form of PvP duel, this thing is absolutely useless, but in PvE and invasions? Gosh, this is an amazing spell! It causes a mob to fight for your side for 30 seconds. It casts pretty fast, unlike in DS1, has range and can exactly charm infinite amount of enemies! That stoopid Phantom thinks he got you now that that red-eyed knight was pulled by your deaf Phantom? Just make it fight for you and watch him make a run for it! Group of enemies come your way? Just make them fight amongst themselves! It's loads of fun, albeit somewhat limited. I give this spell 5 Londorion cookies out of 5!

Carthus Flame Arc

I know you look at this right now and scoff, I know you do. “Carthus Flame Arc this high up? That's like the worst weapon buff out there!” First off, no, just almost! And secondly... I-It is, yes, but this weapon buff got going what others don't: Very low stat requirements. A Knight only needs to spend 2 stat point in order to use this thing! There is technically one that needs a bit less than that, still, buuut Carthus is stronger. Granted, with such low stats, one will get a lot less out of it if they were to get some Faith and Int... and Pyromancies require far more stats to get a good spell buff than other schools... But, erm, even at 10/10 it still gives more damage than a Resin...

The buff I would give it is to fix the scaling of the Pyromancer Flames Spell Buff to be more inline with pure Int/Faith Catalysts... And I guess not have splitdamage be the horrible thing it is in DS1 and 3... But that is going to apply to almost all Weapon Buffs, soooo...

Power Within

Oh boy, here we go... Now, this spell was, like, Meta tier in DS1. It gave 40% extra damage and around 73% extra stamina regeneration while you lost 1% of health over time for 100 seconds. What was fun in DS1 was that you could wear the Lingering Dragon Crest ring to boost it up to 150 seconds, which caused you to lose less health per second, too, as the buff still only drained all your health through its whole duration. It still does the same here, although the extra damage was cut in half (ouch) and the duration down to 30 seconds. It still drains 1% of health per second and the extra Stamina reg is pretty much still almost the same, giving you a flat 30 on top of your base (which is 45). That's like an increase of 66%! You can even still put on the Lingering Dragon Crest ring to make it last 42 seconds, although does that not reduce your damage taken in DS3. Though, despite that, 20% more damage and 66% more stamina regen still sounds great, and in this game you can more easily counter the health loss with regen gear! But, ugh, here's the problem. First, 20% isn't that much. That alone is not worth the health lost. Secondly, while the stamina regeneration sounds amazing, it is... not so useful. Y'see, things in DS3 cost very little stamina, at least convenient things... Like rolling. Just because rolling is so cheap, stamina management is almost unneeded in this game, except maaaaaybe for Great Weapons. But the problem with them is that you hardly will hit anybody in 30 seconds. Maybe once, but that barely causes them to receive more damage than you trade in. Not to mention that 30 seconds can easily be staled until the buff runs out. A cowards tactic, I know, but it's possible.

It probably needs to last for at least 50 seconds. I know, that means more health lost, but is also reduces the chance of just getting staled. Also, a Lingering Crest Ring would get it up to 70 seconds. Good stuff. The extra damage gained probably should be at least 30%. 40% may have been a little too much, but with the whole danger of losing half your health for nothing, I'd say it would justify 30%... Even if two hits of a lot of Great Weapons would kill you in the Arena then.

Warmth

Now, this was the most common Pyromancy support spell out there in DS2. Eeeevery invader had one as a back-up! It summons a floating orb that heals everything around it. It's a great, yet fair, healing spell. If not set up properly, you may gotten healed, but so does everybody else! It still does the same in DS3, although the healing was major **** before it got patched. I mean, that would make you think it would be found on every invader nowadays, too, right? Nope. Not at all. First, having actual Estus around now when invading made all healing spells sorta drop off in importance, though having one is still really fancy to have. No, this spell has far more stuff going on with it. For example, acquiring the thing is obnoxious as hell. You need to be rank two in the Mound-Maker covenant, and everybody knows how lovely it is to rank up in a covenant that requires to to invade folks. Secondly, it now needs two spell slots. Okay, nothing too ground-breaking, albeit pretty annoying. The real deal-breaker is that it now instead of zero, required 25 Faith to even cast. That's not a little. That means pretty much only Faith Hybrids and pure Pyro/Hex/Faith caster can use this thing, and at that high Faith you get far more reliable, save, quick and cheaper options to get a good heal. Now, now, over it's duration it heals more than any other healing spell out there, but that takes 60 seconds and remember, that includes everybody standing next to it. I mean, I guess it always heals the same no matter your Spell Buff, but remember, it requires 25 faith and your Spell Buff with some catalyst is pretty decent at that amount. The fact that it became so much more restricted negates the ups of this thing to me. You will even barely see this thing in Fight Clubs nowadays.

Now, I can understand requirement in stats, yes, but that should probably be around 20 Faith or a split to 15 Faith and Intelligence. Secondly, two spell slots, really? It heals everybody, friend or foe, darn it, and takes far longer than any healing spell (except regeneration spells, but those should best be used before combat, anyways) to get your health up. It should only require one slot.


Carthus Beacon

A buff that boost your damage, and it gets better with each swing! Sound great on paper, but it's terrible on the field. Now, it is supposed to buff your damage for 7,5% on the first swing and up to 15% after 3-5 swings, depending on the weapon used. Sounds pretty fun, yeah? Well, jokes on you, as almost all buffs appear to be weaker against players than mobs. So, that damage you get almost gets cut down to a third. Also, it lasts for 30 seconds. Wow, that's more than enough time to greet my opponent and then attempt to swing at him once... You can stack it with the Pontiff Ring and the Old Wolf Curved Sword, and maybe you get a decent increase of damage out of it then, but on its own? Gosh, this thing is crap. Oh, also, requires 2 slots. Yaaay... I suppose it only requires 12 Int and Faith to use. Not much of a saving grace, if you ask me.

I mean, this is easy. Put it down to 1 slot required and make it last 45 seconds and maybe make it hit players for the intended amount... Or at least closer to that number, like 6 and up to 12% increase. Maybe folks then will at the very least try it out.

Flash Sweat

The spell that sounds the grossest of all that always was used to run through lava across every Souls game... and then never again. It increases Fire Resistance... By like 30%. Good amount, but sadly it only work against one element in the whole game. I suppose you can apply it against bosses you know cause fire damage, but in PvP, this thing... Never sees use. Why? Oh, probably because the vast majority of the time it's a completely wasted spell slot because the vast majority of people don't deal fire damage. Granted, those that do greatly focus on it, this buff countering them firmly, but c'mon, you want to carry around a very situational spell that will work only against a very low amount of players out there? Why not just get another buff that always is useful, albeit not as much as this one against this very specific enemy? AND IT LASTS 30 SECONDS?! Holy ballsack, this thing is shirley.

This spell needs something more, it always needed that. First, 60 seconds duration, no question. Second, a unique effect. What would cause you sweating so much that you are completely soaked in the stuff to your enemy? I guess gross him out. Maybe cause it to build up poison slowly on your opponent if he is close to you? That was a fun mechanic back in DS2 with the Butterfly Set. If that would be added, I'd say to keep it down at 30 seconds of duration, even. Of course, it could also just be combined with the other Sweat spell into one. Speaking of which...

Profuse Sweat

Sweat some more to gain 80 resistance to all status effects. It almost sounds more useful than Flash Sweat... Until you realize that guys that build up status effects are just as rare as pure fire people. Who used this, like, ever, other than to find out what it looks like or to be a sweaty bastard? Nobody? Figures.

This... Should've just been combined with Flash Sweat or probably more so with Caressing Tears. Seriously, why did they even bother making this its own thing?

Iron Flesh

You know what is worse than a buff that does absolutely nothing? A buff that actively gimps you, and not even on purpose! Iron Flesh was always a curiosity. It was pretty broken in Demon Souls, in DS1, too, until patched and actually possibly viable on a very specific build in DS2. Here? Boy, oh boy, is it worse than ever. Casting this on yourself pretty much puts you at over 100% carry weight, forcing you to walk, though are you still able to fat roll. It does increase your physical resistance by 40% and all others by 50... which you can easily reach with normal armour. Oh, you also take 60% more lightning damage. I guess you can't be staggered and there are some weapons that deflect off of you when you are effected by it, allowing you to counter smack them, but there are few of those and they can always just... wait for 16 seconds. Because that is how long this spell lasts. 16 whoooooole seconds. And don't you throw that Quickstep tactic at me. You can just put on tons of armour until you fat roll, reach the same amount of extra resistance while still being able to walk at a normal pace.

What does it need? A lot. Well, not a lot technically speaking, but something that would change it a lot. First, instead of putting you automatically at max weight, it should add a loooot of weight to your person like back in DS2. That way, there is a way for very specific build to use this spell effectively! Second, needs to last longer. 45 second I'd say, but I guess 30 would also be fine...


Miracles

Now, this school is swarmed with buffs and support spells! It got more than any and a lot of them are actually useful! Hot diggity damn, it's like Christmas up in Cleric town!... Well, more like Easter. Ehem, this fact makes them the most common choice for Hybrids out there, not only because Faith got the most Hybrid Weapons... I think. Don't quote me on that.

Tears of Denial

Welp, this is easily the best support spell out there. Why? Oh, I don't know, maybe because it lasts forever until triggered? Granted, that does not make a spell amazing on its own, so let's talk a bit more about it. You apply a buff to yourself that allows you to survive a death blow with 1 hp left. Back in DS2, this spell did not last forever, so you either had to plan in advance that you probably are going to get killed by your enemy or you had to tactically apply it in the midst of combat. Here? Oh, honey, this is like a free 'Get out of Prison'-card. You apply it, rest at the bonfire to regain your FP and then... Just be on your way. It is also quite easy to apply at the begin of a duel, a single Estus regenerating the FP lost. This spell requires only 15 Faith to cast, which opens it up to almost everybody, too. But, since it requires 2 spell slots, pure melee's and casters often pass on it, thus making it almost a Faith Hybrid exclusive. Also, it needs 100 FP to cast, making it the most expensive spell out there, but an infinite lasting buff that gets you out of death once is definitely worth it... Also also, poison is a deliciously devious counter against this buff... Just saying.

Projected Heal

Now, at first glance, you may wonder why this is so high up. It is a healing spell meant for co-op, for crying out loud! Well, you shoot an Emit Force-like projectile that heals any ally that is in range of where it lands. Pretty hard to aim as you cannot, obviously, lock onto your friends. And just like in TF2 with the crossbow, they will neeever stand still. It heals very little for it's price but … Well, this is the ultimate combat heal. Why? It casts very, very fast. You can easily pull off one of those in the middle of a duel, especially if you Lightning Stormed beforehand. Just aim at your feet and enjoy a quick heal. Seriously, if you don't care about the fact that healing in a duel is often frowned upon, this is the spell for you... You douchebag.

Replenishment/Bountiful Light/Bountiful Sunlight

Now, this is a nice one. A healing spell that does not scale with any Spell Buff! Well, you buff yourself and regenerate health. The better the spell, the better the heal. Pretty simple. It goes from 5 to 7 to 10 Health per second, and yes, they stack with everything else, including Gentle Prayer of your Chime, or the Sacred Chime of Filianore that does not even require you to hold it out to keep gaining the healies. The first only has a Faith requirement of 15, something easily acquired, while the next needs 25 and the last 35. Get whatever suits you best and buff yourself up! Some people won't hate you for putting this stuff onto yourself before a duel, even! Oh, Bountiful Sunlight also affects your friends around you. Noice.

Heal Aid/Heal/Med Heal/Great Heal/Soothing Sunlight

A lot of heals, a lot of deals... But sadly no wheels. Well, these spells are pretty much very nice at the time you get them, each healing you a bit more for more FP required. The heal also scales with your Spell Buff, so the more Faith you got, the better it heals. Pretty straight forward. Not much to add here, they all heal you and even friends around you nicely! The reason I put them below regeneration spells is because it is easier to interrupt them and you can't cast these onto yourself before a battle to get that nice regeneration going.

Blessed Weapon

This weapon buff has been argued about since day one. Some think it's ****, others say it's the best one out there. But why, though? Well, it increases the physical damage of a weapon by 7,5% and a Health regeneration which scales of your faith (that tends to be neglectable) for 45 seconds. It is a rather short buff, and the heal actually doesn't increase if one uses the Lingering Crest Rings; it merely spreads it out over the longer duration. Now, why the split opinions? Well, the hate obviously is for the low increase in damage, low regen and low duration. The love, however, comes from the fact that it adds pure physical damage, thus there is no split damage, and it only requires 15 faith to cast! You can achieve that with six stat points as a Knight class or just one plus the Priestess Ring. That actually turns it perfectly into the very definition of “It's better than nothing”. I mean, why not use it? It increases your damage and has very little stat requirements. Though, how do I feel about this spell overall?

First, this thing needs to last at least 60 seconds (or make the duration scale with Faith, I dunno). Secondly, I'd personally change it up a bit... For blessed weapons. Y'see, Blessed Weapons normally can't be buffed, and they really suck when it comes to dealing damage, usually just ending up on a parry-offhand weapon because of that. Thus, I'd say to increase the Physical damage buffed on Blessed Weapons to 15%! That way, Faith Hybrids that go on Regeneration and Blessed Weapons might actually work out! They most likely will still deal less damage on a proper Melee Build, and the weapon buff runs out after a while, though would it make for an interesting new type of build! Also, it should last longer on a Blessed Weapon, a full 90 seconds, in fact.

Sacred Oath

One of the building blocks of the broken weapon buffers back in DS2, here the spell... Is just eh. Again, it's a good' ol case of “better than nothing”, though is that harder to achieve than with Blessed Weapon as this buff actually requires so much Faith that only Hybrids are going to reach it. It increases Physical damage by 10% (though against players I think that it is still lowered) and your physical absorption by 10%. That's not a lot, but honestly, this needs no buff. It is there for those Cleric Hybrids that uses those Special Weapons that Physically scale with Faith to give themselves a bit more of a kick. With my Blessed Weapon improve, this buff would also work nicely together with the Blessed Weapon Cleric!

Lightning Blade/Darkmoon Blade

No reason to split them, they are basically the same spell only that one adds Lightning Damage and the other Magic damage. Though the latter is only acquired through many tears, blood, sweat and waiting around for hours upon hours. Ye be warned. It buffs your damage and scales with your weapon buff. Simple. The problem is the same as all Magical Weapon buffs. Split damage.

Split damage really should be fixed, aka. not make it so that 100 Magical Damage and 100 Physical Damage will deals less than 200 pure Magical or Physical Damage on equal resistances. Although, now that I think about it, that probably would require some re-balancing on quite a few split damage weapons... Any maybe even spell buffs. Hmmm...

Deep Protection

The spell that does a little of everything. 5% more damage, 5% absorption to every type of damage, Resistances against status effects get a plus 20 and a whooole 3 stamina regeneration per second. This thing is kinda hard to judge. It doesn't require much faith, though enough that a pure physical build (at least on level 100 and below) thinks twice about getting it. Mostly due to the fact that it increases everything by so little that it almost isn't worth the bother to cast on oneself. I mean, it is “better than nothing”. Though, at the same time, I really don't know what else it should do... Actually, I do.

The Stamia regeneration should be a bit higher, so it has a nice “buff” parallel to the Ring of Favour and Protection. Probably like around 5 or 6. Still very low, but, well, “better than nothing”.

Vow of Silence

This maybe should be higher, but right now it is so low due to a simple reason. First off, this spell casts a ring of RAGAWHIMADOODOODAA! which causes everybody caught inside to be unable to cast any spells, including yourself. The range is massive, much bigger than the ring would suggest, and I believe it goes through walls, thus, allowing to pretty much always successfully affect anybody, especially since it can't even be rolled through. It only lasts for 15 seconds, but since it is almost impossible to miss, I'd say that is more than fair. I mean, you pretty much hard counter any pure caster out there. Though, 15 seconds can easily be staled, sooo... Oh, by the way, speaking of which. It is so low due to two facts. It requires 30 Faith, so you pretty much have to go hybrid, preferably purely a buff hybrid because otherwise you nerf yourself. Secondly... It only counters casters that actually use offensive spells. I mean, that is its one and only use, yes, buuut that really makes it incredibly situational. Remember, you have to pick this up before you go into a battle, meaning you have no clue at all if it will be useful. And most of the time, it won't. Then again, that is 'prooobably' because pure spellcasters are both actively weaker and harder to play than any pure melee build. So you are going to ruin the fun of a person that already isn't playing all that serious.

Dark Blade

Oh, what the hell? Why is this one so bad? Oh, you ask why it is bad? It is bad because at a requirement of 25 Faith it is as good as Great Magic Weapon that needs 15 Intelligence. I guess this is the Weapon Buff for those people that want Great Heal and Bountiful Light but don't want to spend 5 points/wear the Priestess Ring even though they could just go for a more powerful version with Lightning/Darkmoon Blade then! This thing doesn't even dual-scale with Int and Faith on those catalysts design for such, but instead merely scales of the Faith by itself. And don't give me that Crucifix of the Mad King combo. Even a Resin almost does an as good job.

Either reduce the Faith required down to 15 or bump it up to 30 and make it as good of a Weapon Buff as Lightning/Darkmoon Blade! Yeesh!

Magic Barrier/Great Magic Barrier

Ooooh honey. This spell was so amazing in DS2 that it rivaled Sacred Oath. Now? Let's just say that no Wiki even bothered to include how much magic resistance these spells offer. 35% for the small one, 60% for the big one, by the way. So, why is this spell bad in DS3? Simple, for the same reason it was rather useless back in DS1. It only increases one resistance, one that might be one of the most uncommon types of damage in the game, though, granted, possibly one of the more common magical types of damage in PvP. Key word being magical types, as in, very, very few people actually use those. So, let's break this down, you have one spell (one of which costs TWO spell slots!) that counters one type of damage, a type of damage that is in a group of four that already is rather rare. Did I mention it lasts 45 seconds? Because it does. Basically, there is no reason at all to ever carry this around, except maybe when you got after... I don't know, Crystal sage? You really wanna bother with buffing yourself for him, though? Be true to yourself, you don't. I mean... It's better than Flash Sweat.

Whereas Flash Sweat needs something authentic, this merely needs something diverse. Namely, offering resistance to all types of damage, like back in DS2. Of course, not 35% for the small one or 60% for the great one, that would be ludicrous. It should rather be, say, 20% and 30%. That way everybody that bothers with 15 Faith can get some counter to those rarebloods called spellcasters and proper clerics can really give them the Kirk finger! And it should last 60 seconds! Also, no two spell slots for the Great Magic Barrier. I mean, sheesh!

Caressing Tears

Heals any Poison, Bleeding or Frostbite you might have. You know what does the same faster and without the use of a spell slot or cost of FP? Moss. I mean, I suppose this thing heals all at once, but when was the last time somebody tried to build up two Status Effects on you at the same time? Also, I guess it effects friendly units close to you. I once had this funny encounter when I had a blue friend who constantly used this to heal my poison while we fought a red in the swamp. I guess his intentions were nice. Didn't help in killing the invader and I rather would've had him focus all his attention on him since I had, y'know, Moss. I know it does what it does, but I want spells that do something that is supposed to help you counter something do so better than a bloody item!

Just... I don't know, make it give you a buff at the same time that increases ones resistance to status effects! I know Profuse Sweat already does that, but that one is also completely useless!

Attonement

I'm not sure if I should even add those few next spells, but oh well. Increases enemies aggro range towards you and they are more likely to target you... For 30 seconds. Just... wear the Skull Ring?

I mean, whoever uses this spell want their teeth get knocked in, so at the very least allow them that to happen for 90 seconds. But, even if that changes... Just wear the Skull Ring.

Seek Guidance

This causes developer messages to appear to help you with those nasty fake walls!... Something pointed out to you by dozen player messages, unless you play offline, I guess. In DS3, it also allows you to see summon signs, though if you want to actually summon them, you still gotta be embered up. I liked how there was that Hollow Mask back in DS2 that gave you this effect constantly!.. Wait, does this spell wear off, even? Either way, it is a waste of spell slot, even if you do play offline, I'd say. Needs no change, obviously.

Homeward

The Dark Souls equivalent of the D&D spell Creation. Why carry around an icky bone if you instead waste a spell slot to port yourself using your own abilities? Break the cycle of mediocrity of the Coiled Sword Fragment and show the world how much moxy and style you got. It is slower than either of them? Why, of course, if one wants to do something proper, wants to reach perfection, they have to do it slowly! You are a big boy and you deserve to have the right to teleport yourself home using your own Faith and Focus!...

...How is this spell still in the game?

Dead Again

I heard horror stories on how unspeakably awful this spell has become, the mere thought disgusting people. Thus, I toyed around with it recently and... Sweet mercy, nothing could've preprared me. I... I'll just take the merit of copying TSMP's post about how this spell is utter and complete ****.

TSMP wrote:Dead Again: Man, I could write an entire essay on everything wrong with this spell. Seriously, it's ridiculous. Some of the things they did to it make sense, like corpses disintegrating after you explode them which makes it hard to spam. Other things I can kind of understand, like how it only explodes three corpses at a time so you don't go through all of them in one shot. But then they go and reduce the damage so far that it's barely even 200 per corpse, on a spell you have to spend way too much time setting up, has an incredibly blatant and slow delay before exploding, and that you likely won't ever cast more than once per fight. And that you also won't likely use without prior preparation. Oh, and it only explodes "enemy" corpses, which means you can't blow stuff up while invading except in one specific area on one specific category of enemies (the Undead Settlement non-aggro hollows, if you're wondering). Just... eugh. How do you mess something up so bad?


What needs to change? Why, the damage needs to be... tripled. The delay needs to be reduced. It should effect every type of enemy that leaves a bloody corpse behind! Sweet mercy, I can only repeat, how do you mess something up so bad?


Sorcery

There's quite the variety of curious spells amongst Sorceries. Whereas those amongst Pyromancies... suck and Miracles tend to be rather straight forward, Sorcery buffs add a lot of variety that can be proper used when being creative... Well, a whole bunch of them are really useless, too.

Magic Shield/Great Magic Shield

Sweet buttslap, this thing. Want to turn your Medium Shield into an all-absorbing Great Shield? Look no further than this spell. While the smaller version is actually offers a fair, yet unique buff to your shield, allowing for... well, anybody, due to the low Intelligence requirement, to turn a shield actually rather useful and viable in both PvE and PvP, the Great version makes you [Insert obvious Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance quote here]. The great version adds 35 stability to your shield and causes it to absorb all. Possible. Damage. Everything will get blocked, hell, if you get a Great Shield with okay Stability, namely around 65 or higher, there is going to be no stamina consumption at all against your shield. For 18 Intelligence! Holy molly, the normal version is fine, but the Great one is such an obnoxious baby-kicker of a spell. Luckily it only lasts 30 seconds, probably the one reason you don't see legions of people use it. But still, sheesh.

This spell might be one of the most complicated ones to fix out there, because due to diminishing returns and such in DS3, any small change might make or break this thing. First off, there should never be a way to full absorb all stamina of an attack. It should cap at probably 90% or 95%. Second, nooo 100% absorption on everything. It should add some, yes, and shields that already got great absorption in one Element can get a full 100% when buffed with this spell, but not those where it is only mediocre.

Magic Weapon/Great Magic Weapon/Crystal Magic Weapon

One weak weapon buff for pretty much everybody, one a bit better for those that bother equipping the Scholar Ring and a strong one for proper Intelligence Hybrids or pure casters, I guess. They all have the same problem as any other Weapon buff except Blessed Weapon out there: Split Damage. I pretty much explained this already, so I don't feel the need to go over it again.

Hidden Body

Man, they really ruined this spell. It makes your body go transparent, reducing vision from enemies. It offered for a lot of fun tricks during invasions, especially since using this while wearing the Untrue White Ring causes you to almost look like a White Ghost (y'know, those players of a different world that are close to you). The problem now is that it hardly lasts long enough to properly set things up, forcing you to cast it in audible range for the host. I guess the long duration made it too easy to just run past mobs, but c'mon, there gotta be a different solution for that.

Please, I beg of you, From, make it last longer again! Also, a neat effect to add might be to cause the user to also have the effect ala Obscuring Ring! That would one truly appear like a White Ghost!, appearing only when close to the host.

Hidden Weapon

Makes your weapon invisible. Sounds nice and it kinda is nice... against not so experienced players.... That did not see your weapon prior of you making it invisible. However, I won't deny that an invisible weapon can even throw off experienced players, especially because they can't see how long the thing is you made invisible. And it has really low Intelligence requirements! Though, it only lasts 45 seconds...

I'd say to make it lasts at least 60. C'mon, if you think that's too annoying, just throw a Duel Charm!

Charmeleon

You know it and you love it! Charmeleon was always a treat, causing you to transform into some object fitting for the area. Sadly, since there are items doing the same introduced in DS2, carrying around this spell is almost useless now. I mean, the White Tree Branches only got 10 charges, and sometimes you just never get the one transformation you want even after 10 tries, so I guess you can carry it around if you have low faith in your own luck.

Frozen Weapon

Luckily, I had one person use this spell against me in a proper duel, so I was able to determine where to put this... As you can see, it didn't go well for him nor this spell. It causes your weapon to build up Frostbite. Now, first off, here we got a whoooole spell that does something an item oughta do. Partially since this whoooole spell adds about as much Frostbite buildup to your weapon as a Resin does for Poison or Bleed. And you can't buff any weapon that adds Frostbite with this one, unlike those Resins. Did you ever try to build up a Status effect using a Resin on a weapon that did not add that status effect naturally? Even on a dagger that is near impossible. So you can probably guess why this whoooole spell is crap. Oh, also, it adds Frostbite. Frostbite. Such a delightful Status effect, isn't it?

This needs to add more Frostbite damage, no question.

Spook

Coats the sound of your footsteps and makes you not take any fall damage, also giving you sweet rings on your feet. There are rings that do the same, but I guess if you really want to save a ring slot instead of a spell slot, you can use this one. Oh, lasts 20 seconds. You know, if there is a ring that does the same than a spell but forever, you maybe should make those spells last a lot longer.

Should last 60 seconds, maybe longer.

Twisted Wall of Light

Oh look, the spell nobody used in DS2 is back and not Repel that actually seemed like it could've been useful. You know those spell parry shields? You know how incredibly situational they were even back in DS2 and mainly served to show off? Well, here we got a spell that does the same, only bigger... and a lot slower at the cost of FP. And it requires a whole 27 Intelligence to use. The only reason this is not at the bottom is because somebody pointed out a fun little trick with this spell plus Affinity. It doesn't make any of them good and/or useful spells, mind you.

Take this spell out, put in Repel, make Repel not cost tremendous amounts of spell slots like in DS2, and then watch everybody rejoice! Either that or reduce the Intelligence requirements and then make the casting time instant or something, yeesh! That still would make it a trash spell, but at least it wouldn't be much more worse than a spell parry shield!

Cast Light

You know how there were actual dark areas in DS1 and DS2 that gave this spell some use? Not anymore. I suppose you can now waste a spell slot for... Cosmetic purposes?... If you bother getting 15 Intelligence?

Aural Decoy

This is only here to complain how they replaced the silly laughter with the sound of footsteps. Shame on you, Fromsoft!

Repair

Get yourself a wasted spell slot for a spell that you will never use to do a thingy instead of doing said thingy with an item that you never will use because NOTHING EVER BREAKS IN THIS GAME! Even in those rare instances in which your equipment might be grow brittle because you cleared a whole area so you can invade people because your souls drop where you died in there world, basically countering another stupid, stupid feature in this game, you can just get yourself a Repair Powder! I don't even know what to do with this spell. What would you do? Just remove it, man. It only is here to spit in our face and laugh at us.
Last edited by MrMoho on Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:50 am, edited 33 times in total.

Achtpuntzes

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#5
About Sunlight Spear there: I absolutely did not overlook that. Those facts do not save that spell, at all. I know of the greater hitbox, but Lightning Stake does such a more terific job at hitting people in melee range than Sunlight Spear that it pretty much fully outclass it due to the much bigger splash and less FP cost. Also, due to the fact that Lightning Stake is not just a single hit, it can actually roll catch folks. Sunlight Spear is a bad spell in my opinion; bad damage at range, incredibly expensive and a gimmick that hardly, if ever, comes into play.


you totally wrong. sunlight spear is the best miracle in the game, no doubt at all. it outdamages your lightning stake all day long at close distance. i oneshot people all day long in the forest at sl 60 with it, cant do that with lightning stake.

expensive? if u only need one cast to kill, fp cost dont matter. and with the right talisman, u can poise through any attack at base vig. so u will win any, i say ANY trade.

i like what they did to spells ds3. instead of lock on pew pew from distance to get easy wins, you have to develop skills now to be a great spellcaster. and that's just too much effort for most people, but i don't care.

i LMAO if i see those poor guys spamming lock on spells at you from a distance till they ran out of ashen estus. that's not the way to do it, dudes. not anymore.
Last edited by Achtpuntzes on Thu May 18, 2017 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build

MrMoho

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#6
Achtpuntzes wrote:you totally wrong. sunlight spear is the best miracle in the game, no doubt at all. it outdamages your lightning stake all day long at close distance. i oneshot people all day long in the forest at sl 60 with it, cant do that with lightning stake.

expensive? if u only need one cast to kill, fp cost dont matter. and with the right talisman, u can poise through any attack at base vig. so u will win any, i say ANY trade.


If you get to trade. The range is still incredibly low even with the bigger range up close. The extra damage up close may be its only saving grace. I must say; anybody that gets hit by a melee Sunlight Spear is a bit of a buffoon. Also, long range Lightning Stake, huh? If you mean the bigger splash, then... Lightning Stake wins, since it actually has a big enough range to hit people a bit further away, whereas Sunlight Spear goes into projectile mode, not taking advantage of those 66% more damage.

If you mean withdamage on long range, like, looong range where it does not get those extra 66% damage... Well, then you can't compare the two. Buuut you can compare it to, well, Crystal Soul Spear and Chaos Bed Vestige, both spells that deal loads more damage on range.

After all, I merely asked for it to get better on long range, not at melee. There, it's pretty much fine, though that fact does not save its awfulness... In my opinion.

Achtpuntzes

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#7
i never shoot sunlight spears at distance, thats not the way to use it. a good pure faith guy is a close range guy and dont spill his fp to cast sunlight spears at distance that will miss the target 99,9% of the time.

everyboody is whining about spells, but my pure spellcasters are all doing great. what does that say, do i something wrong or do the whiners something wrong?
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build

MrMoho

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#8
Achtpuntzes wrote:i never shoot sunlight spears at distance, thats not the way to use it. a good pure faith guy is a close range guy and dont spill his fp to cast sunlight spears at distance that will miss the target 99,9% of the time.

everyboody is whining about spells, but my pure spellcasters are all doing great. what does that say, do i something wrong or do the whiners something wrong?


...Maybe you are just much better at the game than most your opponents? I also got a very positive win/loss rate with all my pure spellcasters, probably like 80% if I had to guess, but whenever I get to fight a person with similar skill as I, it becomes quickly clear that magic is pretty bad.

Also, Sunlight Spear shouldn't be only good at melee range. Miracles already got a spell that only should be goot at close range, Lightning Stake. Sunlight Spear, due to being the most expensive and slowest "Big Boom" spell of them all, should be good at melee and range, thus me only complaining about Lightning Spear when used as a projectile.

Achtpuntzes

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#9
I actively played spellcasters of every type since DS2, thank you very much,

sorry if i was a little hard. i +3 rated your post for your effort, and the discussion we can have now. :)

but i really think u should have mentioned all spells. a cleric can be a health regenerate moster for example, i got a build that has 99,9% win rate. and some buffs are realy great, and alot stack. and more stuff u didnt mention. hell, i use casting light sometimes because noobs never seen it and are scared of it lol.
sl59 faith guy +8
sl42 luck guy +6
sl38 dex guy +5
sl20 +3
sl1 +2
no meta build
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Rizen

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#10
Good thread! There's a spring snow storm happening here and I've had the power go out 3 times so I'll post and edit in more.

I played a sorcerer my first file and a pyromancer in this one and, yes Pyro>sorcerer. Sorceries have some good PvE spells like hidden body and GMagic shield but mostly they're too expensive to be practical. Pyros are more efficient and often faster.

A big con to casters is you have to spend skill points on attunement and dexterity. That takes a lot of investment on stats that don't actually effect what spells you can use or how strong they'll be. Goodbye stats like vit, vig, end. IMO attunement should also effect the casting time.

Casting takes a lot of setup. For example I wrote my sunlight warrior sign by the Ringed City Inner Wall bonfire. Depending on what the summoner wants I need to take black fire orb so I have something vs the ring knights since my chaos longsword is ineffective vs them, mercury for Midir and CB Vestegous for invaders/harold knights.

Edit, that's the 4th time my power's gone off and on and my cat's not helping either. tl;dr it's easy to grab a sword and maybe swap a shield but casters have to dedicate their setups to specific tasks or be considerably weaker and that makes it hard to go through the game and help people. PvP spells differ from PvE too. You're never best prepared for all situations.
Last edited by Rizen on Thu May 18, 2017 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Disposition shift has its benefits. If you can't hit play cause the button sticks, ignorance is bliss I can't say. There's a compass raised with familiar tone, a voice that needles you to the bone. You're left with chaos, static and delay.
-REM
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