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skarekrow13

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#1
The following is an excerpt of a blog article.  Read Full Article

One of the complaints that drove me crazy about Dark Souls II was how “cheap” it was because they used so many instances of groups of mobs and ambushes to “artificially” inflate the difficulty.  I often asked myself, “Don't people remember Dark Souls?”  I made a small rant about this in Volume 1 of my return to Lordran.  This prompted the idea to catalog all of the “cheap” groups of mobs in the first game in the series and make a long rant.  I'll warn you ahead of time, this is a long list (and I likely forgot some). The rules ...
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announakis

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#2
Thieves jumping you before the Capra demon...even after many many playthroughs, I was super cautious there because I knew how fast you could go down if you were too presumptuous. Those knives... those backstabs... those damned dogs ! *shivers*
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BWO_RazrSrorm

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#3
I appreciate the work that goes into this. But really the "unfair ganking" feeling people point to in dark souls 2 really just draws back into the overall thing about DS2 that made it feel unpleasent for so many. DS2 is fundimentally a different approach to combat. Dark souls 1 really feels like it stresses single fights and when a group of enemies happens to be in your way it doesn't feel very "smooth."

Where as in DS2 the game is built around you taking tons of damage. This is evidence by the abundance of healing methods, how health is a slow gain instead of instant, etc. etc. DS2 is very much more about handling ganks and taking hits. It's really subjective which you prefer. I prefer a slower more methodical apporach that DKS offered compared to DS2's in the frey more chaotic approach.
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skarekrow13

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#4
Having just played these areas, and some besides the list, I will disagree with that assessment completely.

Going in as mostly melee (no bow on this character) I don't see how the first game is less hectic. The Duke's Archives (among many areas) sounds exactly like what you're describing on DS2. The very first Channeler blinks around and becomes part of the fray in numerous fights. First backing several melee warriors, then adding a few archers and more melee, then yet more melee. The whole time he's blasting Soul Spears at you.

Don't forget either that DS allowed 20 estus, well more than DS2 and DS2 doesn't heal as fast either.

And if the abundance of healing items were related to mob attacks, we'd see the same complaints about Demon's Souls where healing items are even more plentiful.

Now I know everyone's experience will differ, but I can't think of any areas in DS2 where a methodical approach doesn't work. I for one, approached the game exactly the same as the first and didn't note a single instance where slow and steady didn't work.

I agree that the preferred game is subjective for the record. My argument though is that ganks and ambushes are ludicrously present in both games. It's a foundation of the series, rather than an anomaly to DS2
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abraksil

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#5
Ahhhh this made me want to play Dark Souls 1 yet again :)
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#6
I am completely against organized crime in Souls games. You want gangs and mobs? Go play GTA or Mafia.
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#7
Its well to document the multitude of ganks in DS to discredit this lame bash of DS2, but IMO, even if there were more ganks in DS2 I'd still tell the plaintive "Shut up, and put up!" It's a perfectly valid way to increase difficulty, try again. Nay sayers man...they might have a point with SotFS tho. I've been getting wrekt by a lot of crap I don't remember, but I like it #SickPuppy
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#8
A subjective reasoning why dks2 feels more ganky, but i will try to sound objective :P :

I think one of the reasons why dks2 feels more ganky is because it is lacks interesting special enemies in many areas. So instead of remembering the worthy or interesting opponents many remember the annoying gank squads instead. For an example lets compare an early area from one versus one from two (i will exclude boss fights):
Undead burg/parish have many fights versus crappy hollow groups, but also the two black knights, the boar, hellkite, a channeler and the berendike knight as special enemys.
Forest of the fallen (sotfs) well there is an early persuer (one can argue if this is a boss fight or not, as most players in their first playthrough don't recognise it as a boss fight when confronted with it), an ogre, a syan knight, flame lizards and if you want to be generous the ironclads as special enemies.
So both areas have lots of classic hollow soldiers, but i dare to say the special roster of the undead burg/parish region are a bit more memorable and outstanding from the standard enemies than the ones in the forest.
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#9
For me personally, it didn't have much to do with gank mobs. I just found DS2 enemy placement random and tedious rather than methodical and engaging. Fun being the main factor here. And it's not nostalgia. I bounced around between all 3 games when I had a PS3 and enjoyed all of them for different reasons.

DS2 enemy placement is much more like Nioh. The difference is that it works for me in Nioh due to faster combat.

I never hated DS2 though. it was a great game, just not a better Souls game than what we had before. If it was the only Souls game to exist, it would be one of my favorite games. Instead, it's my least favorite game in one of my favorite series.


It doesn't matter if DS1 had gank mobs. The difference is that it focused on memorable 1v1 encounters. 1v1 encounters in DS2 were not so memorable (excluding bosses here). 1v1 encounters that feel engaging are more fun than back peddling to pick off groups. Both games had the mobs. What DS2 lacked was memorable enemies that were fun to fight.
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#10
Veroskan wrote:A subjective reasoning why dks2 feels more ganky, but i will try to sound objective :P :

I think one of the reasons why dks2 feels more ganky is because it is lacks interesting special enemies in many areas. So instead of remembering the worthy or interesting opponents many remember the annoying gank squads instead. For an example lets compare an early area from one versus one from two (i will exclude boss fights):
Undead burg/parish have many fights versus crappy hollow groups, but also the two black knights, the boar, hellkite, a channeler and the berendike knight as special enemys.
Forest of the fallen (sotfs) well there is an early persuer (one can argue if this is a boss fight or not, as most players in their first playthrough don't recognise it as a boss fight when confronted with it), an ogre, a syan knight, flame lizards and if you want to be generous the ironclads as special enemies.
So both areas have lots of classic hollow soldiers, but i dare to say the special roster of the undead burg/parish region are a bit more memorable and outstanding from the standard enemies than the ones in the forest.


Interesting. I was making a post with the same point at the exact time.
I knew it wasn't just me who felt this way.
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