made the mistake of gloating to frampt about how i got this princess' lord vessel, and he ate me, and made me put that thing on an alter. me being me, i did it and then found this page a few days later

Frampt is a praimordial serpent like kathe and when you become the dark lord they both have to serve you such is their duty but that doesn t mean frampt dont want to stop you

If you place the vessel without the presence of either primordial serpent both will treat you as an enemy.

You can obtain the Lordvessel but don't place it until after you beat The Four Kings. It is though one of the many things that irritates me about these Souls games. If you do not follow a guide before first playing the game, you will miss so much stuff that requires other play throughs but following a guide from the get go ruins the game. Kaathe should never just disappear and cause players to have to replay the game in order to use that Covenant.

You can receive the lord vessel, just don't place it at the Kiln. I don't believe Kaathe is a prisoner of the abyss. I think that it has more to do that if you put the lord vessel in before talking to Kaathe, you have already committed to what Framp was selling to you. It is possible he is bound to the Abyss because the only other reference to him is in Oocile

Yes, don't say no in NG+

Actually surprisingly I didn't even know about Kaathe I was just afraid of giving my Lordvessel away and losing my warp power. So reading on the Lordvessel led me here.

HAHA no way! I just stumbled upon them because New Londo gave me silent hill vibes. Killed Ingward was like "oh! a key!' found the well, died. Traveled somewhere else on the map met a wolf, killed the wolf. Saw the ring "it's wearer like Artorias himself, can traverse the abyss." Went "oh snap!" Ran back, died maybe 100 times then killed them. Big teeth came out said "dude I can hook you up."

The serpent that transport you to the Kiln (Lord Vessel placement) is Framp, so no. Regardless the important point is not to place the lord vessel. You could have Kaathe in the abyss, and Framp at Firelink shrine both available to talk at the same time, but if you place the lord vessel Kaathe dissappears, and if you join the darkstalkers covenant Framp dissappears (and then you just need to jump into the hole)

He does let you join the covenant regardless. Also, contrary to what the previous replier stated in 2019, both serpents can transport the player to the Firelink Altar, so it is possible to use Kaathe to reach Firelink Altar even after Frampt disappears. Kaathe does not disappear if the player places the Lord Vessel immediately after Kaathe brings the player there.

The lord souls did not originate from the first flame, they were found near the first flame and used to fuel the first flame

Human in ds series pretty much undefined we know that manus once a human but then his humanity gone wild creating something completely different from death like nito Nashandra was a fragment of manus which why she can take a form of human.this lead that human may be something way more dangerous rather than the demon,death and other the fact that age of darkness is the age of man maybe if its cannon ending we could see all human became one with abyss and that human will take a true abyssal form