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BKauf

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#1
I've posted this somewhere else but I couldn't get a reply, so I'll fish for some answers here.

Basically, I was looking at some stuff related to Allfather Lloyd and the Way of White, and came to the conclusion that Lloyd's a pretty crap name for a god. Gwyn and his kids all have cool sounding names, but Lloyd (supposedly Gwyn's uncle) definitely sounds like the odd one out. So I looked up the meaning of the name "Lloyd", since they must have had one hell of a good reason to call him that instead of "Metatron" or "Odin" or some cooler name like that. So here it is:

Lloyd (Welsh origin): Grey
Gwyn (Welsh origin): White (/Blessed)

These two would appear to be the most relevant concerning color. However, translating "dark" or "black" into Welsh yields nothing similar to any character name at all, so there goes all hope of finding Gwyn's opposite through this method.

Gwynevere (Welsh origin, eventually evolving into Jennifer, Geneva, and many other forms): 'Gwyn' + 'Sebara' (Through Celtic origin, as most of these appear to be): White/Blessed + Phantom/Fae
This might, apart from her possible inspiration from the Guinevere of Arthurian legend, suggest her elusive nature: She does turn out to be nothing but a ghost in DS1, after all, when we kill the illusion of her that Gwyndolin made.

Gwyndolin: Gwendolen (Welsh origin): White/Blessed + Loop/Link(of a chain)/Ring/Bow(of string, or ribbon). The meaning I'd suggest is Gwyn's Link here, which would be interesting: We've often heard, across the series, that to link the fire is to inherit the fire, so perhaps, to link to Gwyn means to inherit Gwyn, and this is an effort by whoever put her in charge of Anor Londo (if not just herself), to make herself the legit heir, along with all the item descriptions calling her legitimate and all.

This also ties in with Gwyndolin being Gwyn's Link (of a Chain specifically): She's the next step after him, the next iteration of the Age of Fire after it's been unnaturally prolonged. And this might lend some further meaning to the Linking of the Fire: to link it isn't to link it to humanity, as many propose, but rather to add a further link to the huge chain that is the Age of Fire.

Also, Gwyndolin's the main player rooting for the linking of the fire, shepherding the Chosen Undead through illusions and her dad's old buddy Frampt. So in a way, her name also means that she's the one guarding Gwyn's fire-linking legacy.

Finally, her name's possibly inspired on the legendary Queen Gwendolen of Britain, who, according to pseudohistorical works, raised a formidable army and defeated her husband in battle, and reigned as queen of Britain for 15 years before abdicating in favor of her son. No huge parallels with DS1's Gwyndolin, but she did raise huge amounts of power, eventually reigning in Anor Londo and even stealing the Darkmoon Knights from their probable original owner, Velka (at least I've seen some evidence supporting this). They would have one parallel, therefore: huge amounts of power in the hands of someone who you wouldn't expect to have much, given their context.

Anywho, the most intriguing part of this is why Lloyd, the leader of the Way of White, translates as Grey, a title more appropriate to the Lord of Cinder, Gwyn, whose name translates as White. Anybody have any ideas about this? The whole thing about Gwyndolin being Gwyn's Link might have something to it, but it might just be hogwash, so I'm open to opinions as well. I mean, I'm open to opinions about everything, but I'm just saying what I'm most interested in, and what I'm asking here.

Also, any other Welsh names in DS that I might've missed?

So, thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Last edited by BKauf on Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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skarekrow13

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#2
If Lloyd is Gwyn's uncle for real, that means he's older and predates the finding of the Lord Souls by Gwyn by a generation.

Maybe he's a link to the world of gray.

Interesting post by the way
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BKauf

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#3
skarekrow13 wrote:If Lloyd is Gwyn's uncle for real, that means he's older and predates the finding of the Lord Souls by Gwyn by a generation.

Maybe he's a link to the world of gray.


I was thinking this might be the case. But I really don't know where to go with this.

skarekrow13 wrote:Interesting post by the way


Thanks!
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dn1nd

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#4
You Forgot Ciaran, which is Gaelic for Little Dark/Black One.

Skare has a point for the Predating Gwyn. But another possibility is Lloyd is called Gray because his association with Humans hasdarkened him to gray, since humans should be Dark/Black

Doing a quick read on the Name Lloyd it can mean other things and I think this meaning might be the one that was intended.

As an adjective, llwyd also held the meaning or connotation of 'holy' during the medieval period, affecting characteristic adjective lenition.[1] A medieval Welsh scribe or a scribe familiar with the Welsh language would understand that the usage of the mutated form of llwyd, and lwyd was employed to convey the sense of "holiness".


Given Lloyd is referred to as All Father I can see his name meaning Holy instead of Gray.

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BKauf

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#5
dn1nd wrote:You Forgot Ciaran, which is Gaelic for Little Dark/Black One.


Very true, thanks! I'm sure I'd heard about this at some point but I'd completely forgotten, and it's valuable data.

dn1nd wrote:Skare has a point for the Predating Gwyn. But another possibility is Lloyd is called Gray because his association with Humans hasdarkened him to gray, since humans should be Dark/Black


Another great hypothesis! If the association to humans, through the Way of White, darkened him to grey, this also says something else: the Way of White was corrupted from its original form, eventually becoming something different to White. Or in other words, humans darken even the holiest of institutions.

dn1nd wrote:Given Lloyd is referred to as All Father I can see his name meaning Holy instead of Gray.


This ties in perfectly with the rest! If Lloyd is a canonical symbol of holiness, then we can learn a lot by noticing that white was darkened to grey. More so, by DS3, Lloyd is almost forgotten, and the Way of White has been corrupted into the Cathedral of the Deep, almost diametrically opposite to white and blessings (Gwyn = White/Blessed). So maybe, Lloyd, though Grey, was no longer corruptible enough to represent the declining Way of White, and he had to be discarded to make way for the Deep Sea and all of its bounty.