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Petehog

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#1
Hi! What's the best way to counter a Santier's spear in PVP?

I've mainly been using a heavy shield with the butcher's axe..I basically block all the attacks and then counterattack with the butcher's knife or Estoc but I'm wondering whether there's a better way to deal with Santier's weapons. What sort of weapons or tactics or gear do you use against Santier's spear?

Also please note that I can't parry, won't parry and have failed miserably in learning how to parry and have to come to terms with the fact that my inability to parry is my main weakness in the game.
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XuitusTheGreat

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#2
Get a UGS or UGH and use hyper armor

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NPC_invader

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#3
Winged Spear 1 handed running R1. Basically you outrange the initial twinblade moveset.

2 handed R2 works the same but beware of the stamina consumption.
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announakis

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#4
NPC_invader wrote:Winged Spear 1 handed running R1. Basically you outrange the initial twinblade moveset.

2 handed R2 works the same but beware of the stamina consumption.


well except a decent Santier spear user will mostly use the one handed moveset for its insanely good running R1 and alternate all the time between one handed and two handed movesets.

As a heavy Santier user, all I can say is that the only people that caused me grief are the guys using a fast weapon harrasing me by sticking real close and use the fact that despite the fact that the Santier spear is great at mid/long range, it totally blows in the short one versus fast weapons because it has no hyper armor on any move, despite the fact it can break any poise on a 2 handed R2...but this last one is really slow to kick off and needs proper introductory hits to work (or use on wake up).

as for the usual noob trying to look cool with a twinblade, you just wait for the inevitable parry that seem to automatic on 2 handed R1 (and rightfully so if you ask me)
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lizard12304

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#5
just parry
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Petehog

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#6
@npc invader

I will give that a shot and report back.

@announakis

When you say a fast weapon, are you referring to a longsword/sunsword or a rapier. What sort of fast weapon in particular causes you problems? Also how do I do it so it doesn't become a trade? I haven't yet tested this but I get the impression if I went really close to a Santier spear and used a longsword it would be a trade..we would both get hit. Do you do the attack during the windup or after they've attacked? When exactly would you say is the best time to attack?

@XuitusTheGreat

Can't use an Ultra. I suck with ultras.

Petehog

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#7
Petehog wrote:@npc invader

I will give that a shot and report back.

@announakis

When you say a fast weapon, are you referring to a longsword/sunsword or a rapier. What sort of fast weapon in particular causes you problems? Also how do I do it so it doesn't become a trade? I haven't yet tested this but I get the impression if I went really close to a Santier spear and used a longsword it would be a trade..we would both get hit. Do you do the attack during the windup or after they've attacked? When exactly would you say is the best time to attack?

@XuitusTheGreat

Can't use an Ultra. I suck with ultras.


Ok, status report is in.

===I tried the spear method. It works! I'm also fiddling with the Dragonslayer spear as well.

==I tried the up close and personal with sword method. It works if the opponent has low armor and low poise. But if the opponent has Havelesque armor, the fast hits don't stun him and I get hit by the Santier's. But if he doesn't have heavy armor, it worked marvelously as he couldn't get a hit off and he would get interrupted.

Thanks for the tips guys!

TheMeInTeam

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#8
Petehog wrote:@npc invader

I will give that a shot and report back.

@announakis

When you say a fast weapon, are you referring to a longsword/sunsword or a rapier. What sort of fast weapon in particular causes you problems? Also how do I do it so it doesn't become a trade? I haven't yet tested this but I get the impression if I went really close to a Santier spear and used a longsword it would be a trade..we would both get hit. Do you do the attack during the windup or after they've attacked? When exactly would you say is the best time to attack?

@XuitusTheGreat

Can't use an Ultra. I suck with ultras.


If you are using a great shield and shouldering the burden of that weight, you should be able to win trades, either with hyper armor or just doing more damage/offsetting buffs with burrs. Smaller str weapons like mace or bandit axe are pretty fast, larger ones have hyper armor. If you're using stuff like spears you can Leo trade.

If they're whaling on your shield, you have a stamina advantage and can pressure them by *forcing* trades and chewing stamina by trying to get distance. You just have to avoid turtling with the shield too much or they'll guard break obviously, but people don't like doing that if you're actually attacking somewhat because it's a free hit.

Spacing is important for any style, but heavy armor/greatshield style in particular really needs an understanding of opposing stamina bar prediction because your opponents are more predictable if you have a rough idea of their remaining stamina (pretty much nobody will initiate a hit when it would remove their ability to swing again or roll for example).

sleepythc_

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#9
...parry spam :P

Petehog

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#10
I'll answer my own question. I've been using a Shortbow with either iron arrows or lightning arrows. Not sure if this is common knowledge but although dark arrows inflict more damage, they shoot differently compared to other arrows. The Iron arrow in particular shoots straight, further and faster. What I do is wait for my opponent to roll and shoot him in between the Iframes. Took me a lot of practice but it's been very effective against the Santier's Spear because a Santier's Spear holder uses spacing and rolls to get close to you. Each time they roll, they get hurt. Granted, I know there are folks who swear that you can dodge arrows by rolling or by using a Simpleton's ring. You can't. It's probably why bow and arrows are banned in most tournaments. They're that good.