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#1
In-game, Shepard obviously is because he/she can learn more powers. Lore-wise though, who do you think is stronger?
#2

I would say cutscene/lore-wise, Jack is a stronger biotic than Shepard. 

See: destroying a bunch of YMIR mechs at once, crazy biotic handstand kill (Shadow Broker video footage), holding the biotic bubble. 

Not sure if Shepard would be able to handle the biotic bubble if given the opportunity.

Also, Jack and Samara (and Morinth?) are supposed to be roughly on par I think. Samara was able to pull a moving skycar (Shadow Broker video footage), and is also able to use her biotic to float in both ME2 and ME3 custscenes. In ME3, Adept Shepard and I think Kaidan can comment on this in the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery and Shepard will say that is beyond their ability. 

Now Jack is never shown to do that, but assuming her and Samara are roughly equal then she can do other things with about the same biotic power if not those exact things.

Lore-wise, biotic abilities seem to vary with the individual. Some biotic abilities seem inherently easier to some individuals than others, while other abilities can be learned. Individuals can also be "stronger" with biotics than others. Jack seems to be one of the stronger ones. I assume Adept Shepard is also strong but also has combat training with the Alliance military; not sure how much that affects Shepard's biotic skills. Also Jack was experimented on by Cerberus to increase her already substantial potential. 

We also know that the biotic implants can also make a difference. We know from Kaidan that L2s spike higher than L3s (except Shepard of course). Adept Shepard is given L5 implants in ME2; not sure how those perform compared to previous generations of the L implants. Not sure what Jack's implants are, although in ME3 Kahlee Sanders can give her L5x amps -- not implants-- if I recall (Shadow Broker message terminal).

I think I am still going with Jack being the stronger biotic than Adept Shepard. 


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capn233

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#3

Subject Zero is likely the most powerful human biotic.


-This evidence is irrefutable.
#4

I would say cutscene/lore-wise, Jack is a stronger biotic than Shepard. 

See: destroying a bunch of YMIR mechs at once, crazy biotic handstand kill (Shadow Broker video footage), holding the biotic bubble. 

Not sure if Shepard would be able to handle the biotic bubble if given the opportunity.

Also, Jack and Samara (and Morinth?) are supposed to be roughly on par I think. Samara was able to pull a moving skycar (Shadow Broker video footage), and is also able to use her biotic to float in both ME2 and ME3 custscenes. In ME3, Adept Shepard and I think Kaidan can comment on this in the Ardat-Yakshi Monastery and Shepard will say that is beyond their ability. 

Now Jack is never shown to do that, but assuming her and Samara are roughly equal then she can do other things with about the same biotic power if not those exact things.

Lore-wise, biotic abilities seem to vary with the individual. Some biotic abilities seem inherently easier to some individuals than others, while other abilities can be learned. Individuals can also be "stronger" with biotics than others. Jack seems to be one of the stronger ones. I assume Adept Shepard is also strong but also has combat training with the Alliance military; not sure how much that affects Shepard's biotic skills. Also Jack was experimented on by Cerberus to increase her already substantial potential. 

We also know that the biotic implants can also make a difference. We know from Kaidan that L2s spike higher than L3s (except Shepard of course). Adept Shepard is given L5 implants in ME2; not sure how those perform compared to previous generations of the L implants. Not sure what Jack's implants are, although in ME3 Kahlee Sanders can give her L5x amps -- not implants-- if I recall (Shadow Broker message terminal).

I think I am still going with Jack being the stronger biotic than Adept Shepard. 

I believe that, when she tells you about her upgrade in ME2, she indicates that they are "plans for those L5X's, still got 'em in my head."  I would say, lore-wise, Jack is presented as being the strongest known human biotic.  However, when the points are tallied for the SM in ME2, she is listed as being one of the weaker characters on the team.


#5
I did the monastery quest with my adept Shepard, Jean Grey, and Kaidan just recently, yet do not recall hearing a line where Shepard says they cannot float. That is disappointing. I always imagined adept Shepard could float around, even if it is not shown. Ex: Like when Shepard smashes on a window with an Avenger assault rifle, despite class or weapon, until Jack bothers using biotics. Strange how adept Shepard could not float when asari mercenaries, Falere, etc. can.
#6

I would say, lore-wise, Jack is presented as being the strongest known human biotic.  However, when the points are tallied for the SM in ME2, she is listed as being one of the weaker characters on the team.

By weaker, do you mean her 'Hold the line" score? I think that is irrelevant to the discussion. It is a gameplay mechanic, but even if you want to extrapolate that into lore, then it applies to her defense, not her biotic strength unless you think her biotic strength plays into her defense (the best defense is a good offense and things like that; basically survive longer by killing more people). Although that is a combination of biotics and gunplay.

Lore-wise -- from the codex or the books, I cannot remember; I think it is from the codex -- we are told that biotics are capable of a few 'impressive' displays of biotics before they get too tired to perform any more biotic feats. As such, Jack would be capable of some impressive biotic displays that could kill, maim, and/or disable a lot of Collectors, but eventually she will get too tired to perform any more biotic displays and be forced to rely on her firearms. And keep in mind we have no idea how many Collectors there are, but we do know from Shepard's conversation with a squadmate mid-Reaper Larvae that the Collectors keep coming in waves.

But regardless, this seems to be subjective, and you bring up a nice counterpoint.


#7

By weaker, do you mean her 'Hold the line" score? I think that is irrelevant to the discussion. It is a gameplay mechanic, but even if you want to extrapolate that into lore, then it applies to her defense, not her biotic strength unless you think her biotic strength plays into her defense (the best defense is a good offense and things like that; basically survive longer by killing more people). Although that is a combination of biotics and gunplay.

Lore-wise -- from the codex or the books, I cannot remember; I think it is from the codex -- we are told that biotics are capable of a few 'impressive' displays of biotics before they get too tired to perform any more biotic feats. As such, Jack would be capable of some impressive biotic displays that could kill, maim, and/or disable a lot of Collectors, but eventually she will get too tired to perform any more biotic displays and be forced to rely on her firearms. And keep in mind we have no idea how many Collectors there are, but we do know from Shepard's conversation with a squadmate mid-Reaper Larvae that the Collectors keep coming in waves.

But regardless, this seems to be subjective, and you bring up a nice counterpoint.

I agree, it was probably irrelevant but I couldn't resist bringing it up anyways.  As a separate point, I never got the impression from any of the dialogue that even an Adept Shepard believes himself to be a stronger biotic than either Samara/Morinth or Jack.  Kaidan, in ME1, does indicate a feeling that Shepard's biotics are superior to his own... but that can also be interpreted as doing some boot licking (if male Shep) or even using offhand compliments to flirt a little, within the regs (if femShep).  I do frequently use Jack on the end run (even in Insanity), so I don't mind that they gave her a relatively low "hold the line" score.  I find her particularly effective at clearling the platforms quickly (combined with Miranda's warp and slam and with her warp ammo active).


#8
I cannot recall Kaidan, or anyone, ever mentioning Shepard's biotics in ME1. On the contrary, Shepard seems very ignorant on the subject despite potentially being a biotic themself.
#9

I cannot recall Kaidan, or anyone, ever mentioning Shepard's biotics in ME1. On the contrary, Shepard seems very ignorant on the subject despite potentially being a biotic themself.

In ME1, Kaidan mentions that L2s "spike higher" than L3s and then adds "except for you [ie. Shepard] of course." or "present company excepted" (can't remember the exact line right now).  This line is a reference to Shepard being an L3 and indicates that Kaidan believes Shepard spikes higher than he does even though Kaidan is an L2.  It's really a line that only makes any sense when Shepard is a biotic, even though Kaidan will say it to any class of Shep.


#10

In ME1, Kaidan mentions that L2s "spike higher" than L3s and then adds "except for you [ie. Shepard] of course." or "present company excepted" (can't remember the exact line right now).  This line is a reference to Shepard being an L3 and indicates that Kaidan believes Shepard spikes higher than he does even though Kaidan is an L2.  It's really a line that only makes any sense when Shepard is a biotic, even though Kaidan will say it to any class of Shep.


I played on PS3. There may be a bug where that line does not show up, because it never did for me that I recall.
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