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#11

That's why I - like Zaeed - only romance my gun.


#12

To be honest, I have always disliked Liara. She might be the only character I truly dislike. I never had the desire to romance her and I hate how she is pushed constantly. People even say that this is the canon or the one Bioware wants you to choose? Yeah, no thanks. Her character arc in general doesn't make a lot of sense for me, and when I watched her romance on YT, I felt nothing really. Its honestly not well written like Tali, Garrus, or Kaiden.


I don't dislike Liara, but I just don't care one way or the other about her. She serves to further the plot in ME and ME3 and that's kind of it. Speaking as someone who's never romanced her, I think her entire trilogy arc makes no sense.

KaiserShep

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#13

The constant 'reaffirming' stuff is due to two things. First, its due to Liara's nature. She honestly cannot believe that someone can be interested in her and remain interested in her. This is psych stuff due to her introverted nature and isolated upbringing.

Second, is all the whiny complaints from people who didn't pay attention in the first game and didn't want Liara as a romance option at all.

Third is all the complaints about suddenly 'finding themselves in a relationship' that spilled over from the Anders romance in Dragon Age 2, where one, just one, otherwise friendly and supportive dialog from Hawke to Anders suddenly and irrevocably triggered Anders into thinking Hawke wanted a relationship.

So instead of respecting player choice in Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2: LotSB, the writers instead made Liara's romance the *last* to lock in during Mass Effect 3, literally allowing *every* other possible love interest the first chance to lock in a romance with Shepard before Liara.

As a result, yes, Liara's romance is poorly written and inconsistent across the three games. It is acceptable in Mass Effect, and it is well written *after* being affirmed in Mass Effect 2 LotSB, and it is well written *after* being locked in during the third game, but it is consistently reset because the writers felt the need to reset it for everyone because of those who do not like Liara.

I doubt her nature or dislike from certain players had much to do with the way that worked. If we were able to lock in at the first affirmation, that basically blocks off the other characters before you get to know about them, unless BioWare took a page out of DA's book and added the ability to break up with the companion whenever you wished. 


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aoibhealfae

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#14

The writers didn't 'reset' it for everyone who don't like Liara. Its a reset for people who didn't play the earlier games and start out Mass Effect 3 first and a do-over since Liara have the least romantic interactions in Mass Effect 1 compared to either Ashley or Kaidan. She is over a hundred years old and playing the naive officious virginal ingenue to perfection while being an utter creep. Invasion of privacy is her specialty. She have trophies of the things Shepard died in for display. No matter how many attempts the writers tried to make her remotely attractive (changing her features, giving her bigger boobs and darker sultry makeup), no matter how much ardent fans trying to convince everyone that she is the canon LI by majority, but its undeniable that her romance is the least definition of romantic especially if you confuse between love and obsession. 

DA2 was created years after Mass Effect 1. Anders hitting on you is no where near to Liara confessing that she cyberstalk you and how the game will choose her as your LI and override your romance progression with either Kaidan and Ashley if you don't trigger the threesome scene. 


#15

The writers didn't 'reset' it for everyone who don't like Liara. Its a reset for people who didn't play the earlier games and start out Mass Effect 3 first and a do-over since Liara have the least romantic interactions in Mass Effect 1 compared to either Ashley or Kaidan. She is over a hundred years old and playing the naive officious virginal ingenue to perfection while being an utter creep. Invasion of privacy is her specialty. She have trophies of the things Shepard died in for display. No matter how many attempts the writers tried to make her remotely attractive (changing her features, giving her bigger boobs and darker sultry makeup), no matter how much ardent fans trying to convince everyone that she is the canon LI by majority, but its undeniable that her romance is the least definition of romantic especially if you confuse between love and obsession. 

DA2 was created years after Mass Effect 1. Anders hitting on you is no where near to Liara confessing that she cyberstalk you and how the game will choose her as your LI and override your romance progression with either Kaidan and Ashley if you don't trigger the threesome scene. 

LotSB wasn't romantic at all? That cabin scene was the most romantic in the trilogy IMO.

As for her "obsession," I have mixed feelings.

First, often people argue that you barely realize you're even in an romance with her throughout ME3 for someone so "obsessed" with Shepard.

Second, the whole trophy in her apartment thing can be interpreted in different ways. When people put a signed football from their favorite athlete in a display case, no one thinks anything of it. But if Liara puts the armor remnants of an until recently dead Shepard on display, she's obsessed? She makes no secret that she greatly appreciates and respects everything that Shepard does. Liara's one of the few to give anywhere near the thanks Shepard deserves actually. Putting that armor up might be done out of respect and as a way to remember Shepard.

Now, in defense of the obsession angle, there are some definite things that raise eyebrows. For example, if you have a one night stand with Jack, she somehow knows about it. How? She had no direct contact with the Normandy, and certainly shouldn't know about that. She also knew exactly where the specific people (Thane and Samara) were on Illium by memory? Coincidence? Doubtful. She had almost certainly been spying on Shepard beforehand and readied herself with the information.

As a near exclusive Liaramancer, the obsession hints never really bothered me. I can see how someone who doesn't romance her, and especially those who for some reason hate her, would not like it though.


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Shechinah

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#16

Second, the whole trophy in her apartment thing can be interpreted in different ways. When people put a signed football from their favorite athlete in a display case, no one thinks anything of it. But if Liara puts the armor remnants of an until recently dead Shepard on display, she's obsessed? She makes no secret that she greatly appreciates and respects everything that Shepard does. Liara's one of the few to give anywhere near the thanks Shepard deserves actually. Putting that armor up might be done out of respect and as a way to remember Shepard.

There is a bit of a difference between putting a signed football of a favorite athlete in a display case and putting the bloody and torn shirt that said favorite athlete died horribly in, in a display case especially as a way of respecting and remembering them.  

This is part of why the armor on display rubs some people the wrong way. If it had been something else like a crew photo or even a piece of the Normandy then that would have been something else.


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#17

I thought her LotSB romance was alright, but yeah, her ME1 and ME3 romance were garbage, her ME1 romance especially made me cringe. 


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aoibhealfae

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#18

LotSB wasn't romantic at all? That cabin scene was the most romantic in the trilogy IMO.

As for her "obsession," I have mixed feelings.

First, often people argue that you barely realize you're even in an romance with her throughout ME3 for someone so "obsessed" with Shepard.

Second, the whole trophy in her apartment thing can be interpreted in different ways. When people put a signed football from their favorite athlete in a display case, no one thinks anything of it. But if Liara puts the armor remnants of an until recently dead Shepard on display, she's obsessed? She makes no secret that she greatly appreciates and respects everything that Shepard does. Liara's one of the few to give anywhere near the thanks Shepard deserves actually. Putting that armor up might be done out of respect and as a way to remember Shepard.

Now, in defense of the obsession angle, there are some definite things that raise eyebrows. For example, if you have a one night stand with Jack, she somehow knows about it. How? She had no direct contact with the Normandy, and certainly shouldn't know about that. She also knew exactly where the specific people (Thane and Samara) were on Illium by memory? Coincidence? Doubtful. She had almost certainly been spying on Shepard beforehand and readied herself with the information.

As a near exclusive Liaramancer, the obsession hints never really bothered me. I can see how someone who doesn't romance her, and especially those who for some reason hate her, would not like it though.

You mean the fully-clothed hugging-groping scene and the gasping black eye thing? Its a downgrade from ME1's kissing-groping and naked humping. Then again all romance in ME2 was as cringey as DAO's love scenes.

But the word "romance" is an odd thing to describe the relationship between Liara and Shepard and the best comparison I have was unfortunately, Twilight. An innocent naive girl from broken family who found herself enthralled by a mysterious sexy stranger who have the tendency to save her life in repeat. One of them was over a hundred years old youthful creature with the ability to read minds and like to stalk the other. In a very short time, while they barely knew each other and yet they became so devoted to each other to the extreme after a brief connection they had. They had various displays of affections that was should have been conventionally invasive and manipulative, but was very widely perceived as deeply romantic. One character was intended to be a self-insertion. And another was a sexual fantasy that came true. .. ..... .... .... .... *gasp* wait, I'm referring who and who again?

However, a well-written romance, should have a clear separation between love and infatuation. Liara display a lot of flagged behavior that was worrying and not many of us see repetitive invasion of privacy and displays of unsubtle emotional manipulation techniques as remotely flattering, especially with how the game was written to favor keeping her happy and Shepard being totally comfortable with all of it. Frankly, if all this is about "hating" than simply a character criticism, you would see a lot of one liner about how so and so is  "ugly" and "boring" and "completely hate them" and "I always let them die", and you wouldn't see people exploring a character in details that people tend to overlook; like how a broken armor in a display case is deeply unnerving to people who don't romance her or want that attention from her. And I have romanced Liara.


#19
Never knew that this was a thing that people took issue with but I'm puposely disconnected from the fandom for a reason so...

I guess because I get the way her character progressed that I don't see it as poor. I just wish they didn't set it up like they did in ME3...I can only guess that they set it up that way because of the looming thematic of war and death and Liara pretty much wants one less thing to worry about, if she can help it. I mean as soon as you visit her spot in the Normandy she asks...there is no real in game justification other than the war so idk. It felt like her thirst was too strong but I honestly never cared...any Shepard I had romancing her was completely okay with that.

As for the unrequited love thing or the ninjamancing...she asks you...straight up to see what's good. there's nothing ninja about that like...she asks for clarification since she has no experience dealing with romantic matters. It isn't a cryptic question(like certain other creepy *** crew mates). I see nothing wrong with her candid way of doing so and once you tell her nah, that's the end of it...unlike other creepy crew members who still ask you again in the third game when you rejected them in the first one. :ph34r:
#20

There is a bit of a difference between putting a signed football of a favorite athlete in a display case and putting the bloody and torn shirt that said favorite athlete died horribly in, in a display case especially as a way of respecting and remembering them.  
 
This is part of why the armor on display rubs some people the wrong way. If it had been something else like a crew photo or even a piece of the Normandy then that would have been something else.


Armor, not bloody shirt. Again, it can be done to honor them. Legion goes around wearing part of Shepard's armor, yet I never hear anyone complain.
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