For the PvP nuts! Debate tactics, discuss builds, and set up duels. Play nice.
 2 
Reply  

Terrorcore

Addicted
First Warden

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:14 pm
Souls: 834.00
Posts: 165
Reputation: 12
#11
Spacing and timing is king when discussing DkS PvP. Being able to maneuver yourself into an advantageous position and strike at the precise time is something that takes time to master and even then, you can still improve.

Backstabs in DkS are akin to headshots in FPS games. If you position yourself poorly, you will probably get backstabbed. It's all well and good to learn advanced techniques like toggling or counter bs, but fundamentals are what will take you the furthest.

My only other advice is play cautiously. Manage your stamina properly, don't go swinging wildly at nothing, hoping to catch a hit on them. Watch, learn and think.

Mortarion

Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:10 am
Souls: 10.00
Posts: 1
Reputation: 1
#12
This is actually why I joined these forums, because I wanted to know if there was a community of Dark Souls PVPers who still wanted to honor duel and have fun trying out different weapons and builds. It's hard to "GIT GUD" at this game when most of the people who summon me are gankers or already have Pursuers and Tranquil Walk of Peace cast before I even spawn. I'm still using the same crutch tactics and not getting any better because the only way to grab an inch against these people is to fight as dirty as they do, which isn't fun even when I win. With my Int / Dex build I can usually R1 spam gankers into oblivion, but I want to try out different builds and have competitive 1v1 duels without using cheesy tactics.

So basically, to the OP and anyone else who wants to find like-minded folks to have straight-up fights, get better at stuff like parrying and backstabbing and try out wacky builds, message me on here or on Xbox Live. GT: Geth Goldblum

Esquire

Hollowed
Redeemer

Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:00 pm
Souls: 3,013.00
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 1738
Reputation: 73
Wiki Edits: 55
#13
Despite what people on the forums (and the internet) claim otherwise it isn't a crime against gaming to dislike the PvP mechanics and still enjoy the series. If you can't get into it then don't beat yourself up about it.
VIP
Avatar

Fexelea

Webmistress
Webmistress

Fire Keeper

Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: Japan
Souls: 439,903.49
Bank: 10,301.71
Posts: 13658
Reputation: 757
Wiki Edits: 39454
#14
I'm a 100% co-op and PvE player. I do not think that liking pvp is necessary to enjoy the series. I usually suicide when invaded unless I'm co-oping.

That said many people enjoy the PvP elements very much so there must be an appeal for those of you who are into competitive modes. It's really about your personality, I think. When I win against an invader, I mostly feel "yay now I can get back to what I was doing" rather than "hah I showed him" - it just depends on what you enjoy :)
Fextralife: Gaming News ⚔️ Sekiro Wiki ⚔️ Monster Hunter World Wiki
A gaming blog and wiki network powered by real gamers.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

BWO_RazrSrorm

Moderator Trainee
Moderator Trainee

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:06 am
Location: Nebraska
Souls: 27,030.00
Posts: 4610
Reputation: 276
Wiki Edits: 41
#15
I suggest you learn how to toggle escape, dead angle, general unlocked to locked combat, and roll/flick back stab.

In DKS a majority of fights are really based on who can land more criticals. Riposts and back stabs are like the bread for your pvp sandwich and other fancy moves like dead angeling are the meat in between. Stuff that you use to help get those criticals.

I'm currently on a hiatus of DS2 as i've gotten sick of being killed over and over when i shouldn't be. (me clearly not in range of the blade/spell and still getting hit and killed.) DS2 did great in a ton of areas. It just never stays consistent which is why i find myself back on dark souls these days.

You could probably youtube search "dark souls pvp tips" and find a ton of videos to help you out. I've really only named off the basics. There are much more complex things like spacing, baiting, and quick swapping that i would consider advanced things.

IMO though you need to learn the back stab techniques and parry timing. If you can nail those down you will at least get in the mid tier of where most players are at.
Last edited by BWO_RazrSrorm on Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
A perfect evening involves pizza, some tea, some bros, and dark souls.
Avatar

Juli

Obsessed
Commander

Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:43 am
Souls: 3,723.50
Posts: 569
Reputation: 61
#16
BWO_RazrSrorm wrote:There are much more complex things like spacing, baiting, and quick swapping that i would consider advanced things.

Spacing isn't advanced. It's the most fundamental aspect of the game's combat.

Also I wouldn't recommend learning parrying to beginners. You can go much, much further than being a mid-tier player without ever bothering with parries.
This is harsh, please evaluate me.
Avatar

BWO_RazrSrorm

Moderator Trainee
Moderator Trainee

Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:06 am
Location: Nebraska
Souls: 27,030.00
Posts: 4610
Reputation: 276
Wiki Edits: 41
#17
Juli wrote:
BWO_RazrSrorm wrote:There are much more complex things like spacing, baiting, and quick swapping that i would consider advanced things.

Spacing isn't advanced. It's the most fundamental aspect of the game's combat.

Also I wouldn't recommend learning parrying to beginners. You can go much, much further than being a mid-tier player without ever bothering with parries.


The concept isn't. Proper execution and being able to switch weapons on the fly that require different spacing are. I am terrible with spacing. It's why i can't use spears or lances or halberds. I end up using STR weapons like an UGS or fast things like curved blades.

I would. Considering how a majority of combat in DKS revolves around criticals and punishing. Most if not all of what i stated is used very often in high level play and amongst many of the youtubers who the community dub "good."
It's true you can. I didn't pick up parrying at first. But much of the other tricks or techniques I would argue to be more difficult then learning how to parry and how to BS.

Lastly he asked for tips. I'm not an amazing player but this is my approach. It's what's helped me be sucessful. So i'm sharing what helped me. because he asked.
A perfect evening involves pizza, some tea, some bros, and dark souls.
Avatar

Forum_Pirate

Duke's Archivist
Judge

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: International waters
Souls: 23,006.50
Posts: 11935
Reputation: 387
Wiki Edits: 18
#18
I'd say the whole game is about spacing and timing. The roll poke is king of dks combat, and being right at the edge of your range and attacking them mid roll/attack ensures they can't respond, and only attacking once (twice if you both connect and stun them) ensures they can't toggle out or setup parry you, all other attacks are really just bait to attempt to get them to do something you can punish.

The only thing to watch out for if you're doing this correctly is being predictable, if they guess your attack is coming, especially with a heavy weapon or magic, they're probably going to kill you and you won't be able to stop it.

The reason to learn to BS is to avoid being bs'd, because against a good player most attempts are likely to fail and serious attempts instead of just threatening them are probably going to get you counter bsd or hit in the face with an unlocked attack. It only works at specific spaces and times. If they're moving forward don't attack, if they're hovering just inside your weapons range don't attack, if they're straffing in a circle take a couple steps back as they get close and bs them for being stupid, should keep most attempts from success.

Don't block people using any UGS, the great scyther or any greatsword in 1 hand, it doesn't work, they're going to dead angle.

If you get bs'd, and your opponent stands behind you as you get up, only a couple things can happen, you just have to guess and pray.

1: A kick followed by another bs, Roll bs them to counter or roll any direction but directly away to escape. Can be tough to time, roll ASAP.
2: An attack (typically an r2) or a bs without a kick, you can roll bs or flick the joystick towards them and hit parry (again, tough to time) or eat the attack without pressing anything (it won't be a bs so long as you press nothing) or roll any direction but directly away to escape.
3: A spell. Easily the most dangerous if done correctly, roll bs to punish or straight to a side to avoid most of them, timing changes with the spell, which is the *****, so the common spells used typically are what I'll address. GC you roll towards them unlocked, WOG you roll sideways while locked on, fire tempest you roll bs or run and pray, HCSM you avoid to either side locked or unlocked but you have to wait for it to fire, pursuers you just run from, DB you roll through them like you would GC.

The worst one is great chaos fire ball. You cannot avoid the 300 or so lava damage, and if the orb hits it's another 800, and it's easy to manually aim as you try to escape. I'd try to roll straight back, which exposes you to another bs if they guess correctly but they like to throw it right at their feet to catch people trying to roll bs them.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
- George W. Bush
Avatar

MrMadJackTheJester

Obsessed
Commander

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:50 am
Location: Wandering the abyss, searching.
Souls: 2,430.50
Posts: 407
Reputation: 10
#19
I will state that i have a similar experience with PvP in this game as of late. I used to love the PvP to death, i would have good games and hella awesome ganks (Ornstein and Smough, Silver and Black Knights, Gwyndolin and Gwyn (Father and Son yay!). Now-a-days its just... boring. Ganking Forest Hunters and Hosts, Backstab fishing Wog Spammers, all the things that made the game unbearable. I can honestly say that on the PS3, all the true fans of the games PvP have left to the Dark Souls 2. One day i plan to host a fight club on ps3, and have rules (ofcourse) to make it fun. One Day, One Day. When i re-buy the game (since my disk broke. Curses.)
Confederate!

Avatar

IzalithFM

Newbie
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:00 pm
Souls: 112.00
Posts: 32
Reputation: 5
#20
Forum_Pirate wrote:If you get bs'd, and your opponent stands behind you as you get up, only a couple things can happen, you just have to guess and pray.

1: A kick followed by another bs, Roll bs them to counter or roll any direction but directly away to escape. Can be tough to time, roll ASAP.
2: An attack (typically an r2) or a bs without a kick, you can roll bs or flick the joystick towards them and hit parry (again, tough to time) or eat the attack without pressing anything (it won't be a bs so long as you press nothing) or roll any direction but directly away to escape.
3: A spell. Easily the most dangerous if done correctly, roll bs to punish or straight to a side to avoid most of them, timing changes with the spell, which is the *****, so the common spells used typically are what I'll address. GC you roll towards them unlocked, WOG you roll sideways while locked on, fire tempest you roll bs or run and pray, HCSM you avoid to either side locked or unlocked but you have to wait for it to fire, pursuers you just run from, DB you roll through them like you would GC.

The worst one is great chaos fire ball. You cannot avoid the 300 or so lava damage, and if the orb hits it's another 800, and it's easy to manually aim as you try to escape. I'd try to roll straight back, which exposes you to another bs if they guess correctly but they like to throw it right at their feet to catch people trying to roll bs them.


Thought i'd add to a few of these and just wake up counters in general, this topic isn't discussed enough.

1. You can also counter kick-BS (and all stagger BS') by standing still after the kick/stagger to gain backstab invincibility. Then, depending on their weapon, you can either try a roll bs on their attempted BS or simply roll to escape. There are a few weapons and spells that chain off kick stuns that are impossible to avoid (due to the in-ability to toggle kick stuns) the most prominent that you'll run into would be Chaos blade R1s and 45 dex GC/BF.

2. Agree mostly, however you should always watch out for the Chaos blade on wake ups. If you stand still they can either simply attack you or kick-attack you, however if you roll you risk a chain. It's really a lose - lose in regards to that weapon (and by extension all katanas) when it comes to wake ups.

3. Never really had a problem with spells on wake ups as it seems you can just crutch through most of them with invincibility frames on fast roll and up. However the firestorm and gravelord sword dance spells can be near impossible to avoid on a hit-canceled BS where the opponent has time to get it off. Another use of a spell on wake up is to spell cancel a wog to try and force your opponent to roll, which allows you to chain them. To counter this you have to call their bluff and stand still, if they wog you can either toggle out of the stun or again stand still to disallow the stagger BS.

A lot of people seem to think its luck when trying to escape chains, but most tactics have one or more counters without taking damage; you just need to learn the timings. The information about wake ups wasn't too prominent during the most popular era of DkS PvP, which led to a lot of frustration in regards to chains and okis.This lack of awareness caused them to be considered cheap,dirty,ect when they're just another facet on PvP to learn.
 2