Dedicated to digging into the game's lore. Bring your thinking caps.
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Mr_Rift

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#11
Madara wrote:You've pretty much outlined the entirety of the known lore. I've only read through just over half of it but its all just commonplace stuff loreheads already know, no speculation on Velka, the rebellion, the chaos war and many other interesting topics. I do not like the title of the thread either because it makes a promise it can't fulfill, any Lore-head on this forum knows this stuff even if they only have a half decent knowledge of the game. You need to think outside the box because i would've been better off not reading an essay about alot of stuff i already know. You put minor different spins on certain things but i would personally context some of those such as Manus. You need to go exploring the game and looking at item descriptions yourself. Youtube loreheads can only get you so far, i love them all but i, along with everyone else has there own spin on evidence and have theory own theories on the lore. you need to do the same.


Actually I came here thinking outside the box and pretty much got shot down as well, so... it kinda seems like all the late comers just get shot down no matter what the produce at this point in time.
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skarekrow13

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#12
Admittedly this is a rough part of the forum to get started these days. I've tried to cut down my activity lately as, even with disclaimers saying "this is my take," It's hard not to come across as "this has been covered and the conclusion was."

One of the biggest burdens in the archives is that the amount of discussion that used to take place laid so much bare that it can be a mine field.

What I mean is that the most involved lore hounds from the get go (I'll pick on me) can typically recite large chunks of text without a second thought, reference all item descriptions on topic "x" at a moment's notice and has the experience of a dozen conversations on the same.

What happens is that newcomers have a spark they want to explore and one of us can come in and drop a text book on it. It's the equivalent of a court battle where one lawyer is just arriving with the initial briefing and the other has been studying the case for a decade. It's absolutely off putting when that happens.

For any new members, please don't be discouraged by the longer tenure members as the intent generally is to have a discussion. We do tend to drop a pile on any topic that's started.

For us grizzled old vets, we need to remember our starting points and let the new lore hounds explore. Even if an established piece of knowledge (very rare actually) is brought up, kindly steer rather than shut down. Also, with so few facts that are proven, there's many new views that could come up. Unless it's something like "I know who the son of Chaos really is" (fact: Ceaseless) there's room to explore.
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Nevis_Ysbrid

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#13
That's not okay, Madra. The Archives section is not here just for ludicrous Velka guesses and conspiracy theories; it's also here for EXACTLY what he presented; there's even a stickied thread (Glyphblade's) that's devoted to basically the same thing. Beyond that, that was outright aggressive, besides that he was completely within the parameters of the forum section. -1.

Skare put it quite well; we've been here a while and many of us have already covered the ideas and theories that the newcomers present quite in-depth. We're already familiar with them, their flaws and ramifications, thus meaning that even when it's generally accepted as 'correct', it's usually already old news to us. So, theories in the Archives section specifically won't usually be met with much enthusiasm (or be quickly deconstructed). Please realize that it's not always an attack, though (though sometimes they are); oft times, it's just already been put forth and determined false or at least unlikely a while ago, and the people who have been here want to get it over with quickly.
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Ultrablood

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#14
Allow me to explain my kind gents. This entire post is for newcomers who have little knowledge about Dark Souls, and i believe all of the events of basic lore stated here are in chronological order (considering New Londo fell after Oolacile for example), even though the time in Lordran is distorted. Considering the fact that with most players playing Dark Souls on there first playthrough, they have little to go on. The reason i did not go into my own theories is because identifying each and every character and there background would make this already large post even bigger, and would be irrelevant to the main lore which i am explaining to newcomers. This post is not for Lore-Heads, but for the ones who know nothing about the basic storyline. I will also be posting my own theories later on. And also Madara, I am very well aquatinted with Item Descriptions and have my own views on DkS lore, so do not leave such critisism without understanding the reasoning behind the post. Thank you for your time. :wave:

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#15
If that's the case, then it has my unofficial official seal of approval. There are several details I disagree with, but as a starting guide to the lore? That may actually be best. Gwyn only knows some of those details would devolve into "Well, it could go either way..." if you didn't just say one way or the other.

So if they want to know more, I will gladly talk their ear off about random absurd theories. If not, they'll at least know the elevator pitch.

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#16
I'm sorry gentlemen but i come to the Archives for new and interesting spins on the evidence presented in the game, and seeing the same old stuff hashed out again for more than the second time it frustrates me slightly. What i said was particularly hostile and i'm sorry for that its just i'm in the forums to see new theories and when i see something long like this, reading it, realising there is nothing new, and its particularly late, my sense left me.

It is, as people are saying a good intro to the Lore, sorry for being a douche :>
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#17
Madara wrote:I'm sorry gentlemen but i come to the Archives for new and interesting spins on the evidence presented in the game, and seeing the same old stuff hashed out again for more than the second time it frustrates me slightly. What i said was particularly hostile and i'm sorry for that its just i'm in the forums to see new theories and when i see something long like this, reading it, realising there is nothing new, and its particularly late, my sense left me.

It is, as people are saying a good intro to the Lore, sorry for being a douche :>


Speculation and throwing new ideas around is fun, but there's very little out there that's simply a consolidation of what we know is true. That said, something like this would be nice as a place for newcomers and oldies alike to have a basic outline of the bases that are covered by the game as a reference for when they want to branch out into crazier theories.

That said, I haven't read it all as of the time of posting, but I will be getting to it. If I notice anything that needs to be tweaked I'll probably edit this post, but for now you seem off to a decent start :)

EDIT: Found stuff. If I'm mistaken about stuff feel free to let me know where/how (obviously though please back up with evidence). Spoilered for space.

The Witch of Izalith didn't create Pyromancy. As stated on the Izalith Catalyst, originally the Witch and her daughters used Flame Sorcery. It wasn't until the Flame of Chaos was created that Quelana created Pyromancy, which drew its power from nature rather the self.

Also, we don't know for sure that Anor Londo was built during the War. It could have easily been built afterwards while the Gods were settling down after their victory.

Woahwoahwoahwoah. Solaire is by no means confirmed to be the First Born/God of War.

Gwyndolin was raised as a woman because, traditionally, lunar powers and the moon itself are considered feminine. It wasn't out of shame, it was just because "the moon = feminine."

There is nothing concrete whatsoever that connects Seath to Gwynevere. Or even Priscilla.

A bit of my own speculation, but I always figured the Darksign was a long-term plan by the Pygmy to usurp the Gods of Light. Being the only soul of Darkness, it quietly hid away until the light began to fade, and once that happened it would resurface to overthrow the now-weakened Gods of Light. The Darksign was simply the "call-to-arms" for potential candidates who could inherit the Dark Soul once the plan was finally set in motion.

While it's possible, it's never said that Gwyn asked the Witch of Izalith to create another First Flame. She could have also decided that all on her own either as a bid for more power to overtake Gwyn's spot as leader of the Gods or out of desperation as of the theory you state in the OP.

Remind me again where exactly the game says that Havel tried to fight Seath, or that Gwyn gave the order for Seath to steal maidens?

Wasn't Artorias's sword cursed when he himself became consumed by the Abyss? I don't remember it saying that he made a contract with the darkness.

While not directly stated, based on its description Gough's Helmet being blinded is implied to have been done from within Gwyn's army rather than by Oolacile residents. It makes it seem like it was a kind of racism against Giants in that they were looked down upon by "normal" Gods and Demigods (what I call things like the Silver Knights) as mindless brutes, and the idea that one of them could become a high-ranking knight was some kind of offensive notion among them.

You left out Seath on the list of people Gwyn gave parts of his Soul to.

While not really direct lore and more of a personal thing, you seem to be cutting Smough short. It's implied that he would have been able to be one of the Four Knights if not for his personality, but that aside his strength alone made him garner respect from much of Gwyn's army. If not from Gwyn's army in general then at least from Ornstein (who's implied to be the second-highest ranked member of the army after Gwyn himself). I never really saw Smough as a monster. More like Ornstein's lapdog.
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Nevis_Ysbrid

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#18
@ Reaper-

The miracle Great Magic Barrier makes mention of Havel being the sworn enemy of Seath and that he hated sorcery. It's loosely implied that he may have died confronting Seath (or another dragon) and losing.

Prior to the release of the DLC, all of the items referencing Artorias suggested that he willingly betrayed the Gods and genuinely joined the Dark of his own volition (meaning that all non-dlc stuff still suggests this). It was only when we got the DLC that he was really depicted as having actually been consumed involuntarily by it.
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#19
Acarnatia wrote:The miracle Great Magic Barrier makes mention of Havel being the sworn enemy of Seath and that he hated sorcery. It's loosely implied that he may have died confronting Seath (or another dragon) and losing.


So say that :lol!: Don't just say it like it's fact, because any connection beyond their "rivalry" (quoted because I know it's an understatement, not sarcasm) is massive guesswork :straight face:
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#20
As someone who just recently got into Dark Souls, I have tried watching lore videos to only have more questions. Thanks for starting at the beginning and explaining as it came up. It really helped a newcomer. Thanks and praise the sun!
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