Dedicated to digging into the game's lore. Bring your thinking caps.
1 
Reply  
Avatar

Icegodzilla

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: USA
Souls: 3,243.00
Posts: 1269
Reputation: 27
Wiki Edits: 3
#1
I know this might be a weird question but it kinda popped in my head today. I assume he was alive once but if he was what would kind of person would he have been? Do you think he was just some random guy that became undead one day or was he some sort of important person? I assume he was a giant because of his size.

Also if there are giant undead does that me the giants of anor londo also ended up having the undead curse? Or were there bones simply brought back by the necromancy of nitto.

Godzilla the Rock always up for jolly co op

CakeThiefPro

Obsessed
Commander

Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:00 pm
Souls: 1,700.00
Posts: 489
Reputation: 13
#2
I'm still not sure if the skeletons are a seperate species or not to be honest.

When the intro says "Nito first of the dead" I like the interpretation that it means he was the strongest of the dead however there's absolutely no proof of that. It seems Nito does grow skeletons but at the same time, originally it would make sense that they came from something living such as giants.
VIP
Avatar

skarekrow13

Moderator
Moderator

(Many Other Functions)

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:00 pm
Souls: 2,509.54
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 16986
Reputation: 595
Wiki Edits: 460
#3
I think he was either alive or undead. Undead most likely. Supposedly the first flame "brought disparity" including life and death.

Nito is identified as "the first of the dead" but that doesn't necessarily mean he was the "very first" or "only" dead. My best guess is that, until the flames started everything was in a limbo of sorts between life and death. When the flames arose, most of the Lords and other beings at that point became truly "living" escaping the limbo of their former existence.

Nito on the other hand, represents the other half of the coin of disparity. Where others lived, he represents the ones that died. From his weird amalgamation of bones I think we can say that there is at the least, a dominant entity that is the structure (skeleton? hardee har har) of the being. That may or may not be Nito. "Nito" could also be the being that was created from the amalgamation of the dead. Aka, while there's seemingly a giant skeleton at the core, Nito might be the group and not the singular entity.

This is all my interpretation but this is how I think it fits with traditional mythos:

-Nito appears to be symbolic of the underworld and it's variants which in Christian mythology is called "Hell" obviously. There's a fairly well known demon sighting where, when asked it's name, the demon replies "My name is Legion, for we are many." The chorus of supernatural beings is commonplace in similar beliefs (angels often come in groups as well as demons, demons also often present as being more than one being even if only one since they like to lie). Now Nito isn't necessarily evil but he's the closest correlation to hellish beings among the lords.

-Extending the idea of limbo or undeath/unlife before the flame there would also not be a heaven or hell or any afterlife prior to the flame. What this means is that, when things started dying their souls were trapped with no afterlife to go to. At some point, the afterlife has to be created. Nito, under this idea, could represent the critical mass of dead. Essentially, the souls of the dead, having nowhere to go, coalesced into one form until it achieved a new entity. The "First of the Dead" in that they represent the dead that had no place to go to. It's been a while since I watched it but I think I first started thinking this idea when I saw the intro video.

-The creation of the afterlife is usually murky in mythology. Valhalla/Hel, Heaven/Hell, or Elysium/Hades all must have come from somewhere but, unlike the lineage of the gods themselves, the locations often seem to just spring up (someone might know the story for some of these to prove this point semi-wrong). What is of note though, is that all of these representations have a few things in common. While the locations don't always have a backstory, the gods do and the rules of the afterlife are generally made by the overseeing deity/deities. So for most mythology, the locations are meaningless without the god(s) attached to it. Since the gods do have a lineage and story attached, the locations of afterlife in their commonly known form are correlated with the deities. In essence, Hell isn't Hell until Satan starts presiding. Hel can't be Hel without Hel. Hades wouldn't be Hades without Hades. Heaven is meaningless without God and angels, Valhalla requires Valkyries and gods. So the Dark Soul creation story fits these nicely. There is no death or afterlife until Nito is arisen. From a numbers game it's also interesting that the darker side of death is usually presided over by one god (or fewer at least) while the divine side generally has many (or more than the other side).
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

Mr_Rift

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:33 pm
Souls: 5,690.00
Posts: 993
Reputation: 37
#4
skarekrow13 wrote:-The creation of the afterlife is usually murky in mythology. Valhalla/Hel, Heaven/Hell, or Elysium/Hades all must have come from somewhere but, unlike the lineage of the gods themselves, the locations often seem to just spring up (someone might know the story for some of these to prove this point semi-wrong). What is of note though, is that all of these representations have a few things in common. While the locations don't always have a backstory, the gods do and the rules of the afterlife are generally made by the overseeing deity/deities. So for most mythology, the locations are meaningless without the god(s) attached to it. Since the gods do have a lineage and story attached, the locations of afterlife in their commonly known form are correlated with the deities. In essence, Hell isn't Hell until Satan starts presiding. Hel can't be Hel without Hel. Hades wouldn't be Hades without Hades. Heaven is meaningless without God and angels, Valhalla requires Valkyries and gods. So the Dark Soul creation story fits these nicely. There is no death or afterlife until Nito is arisen. From a numbers game it's also interesting that the darker side of death is usually presided over by one god (or fewer at least) while the divine side generally has many (or more than the other side).


To back up this point, a lot of times in mythology the "heaven/hell" realms were actual physical places that a living person could travel to. Also, your last point is interesting, about the light side always having lots of deities while they dark usually only ever has one.


As for my answer to this, skarekrow13's is great and I'd back that one - but I've also always got to entertain the possibility that the creation myth of Dark Souls is just a story and that there were people around long before it. In which case, Nito would've been a live at some point, or at least the corpses that comprise his form would've been alive at some point before he found the lord soul.

For something to be dead it must have lived, I get the whole disparity thing but it's a bit of a rough deal if you come into existence simply dead.
VIP
Avatar

skarekrow13

Moderator
Moderator

(Many Other Functions)

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:00 pm
Souls: 2,509.54
Bank: 0.00
Posts: 16986
Reputation: 595
Wiki Edits: 460
#5
That's an error in wording on my part actually because you're right of course. I didn't do a chronology of what I meant which might clarify.

Basically:
-Everything is caught in a limbo state of undeath/unlife (a principal error in this and all similar mythology is that the limbo state had to have come from somewhere, i.e. the principle of the first mover but since most legends ignore this I will too)
-"Then there was fire." Disparity likely was not instantaneous. Usually, life comes first and I again assume this to be true here as well (everything here is just wild guesses for the record). Just watched the video again (so as not to sound like a jack*** more than I usually do) and after fire "they came" from the dark. This is accompanied by hollow looking humans rising which might be the "life" phase kicking in.
-Lord Souls are found "within the flame." They go through the sequence of the Lords clutching a flame. Nito is shown rising from the ground to grab his. Of note is that Gwyn is said to have his knights already (the Witch has her daughters too). I would think that this suggests a possible passage of time from "Then there was fire" to the Lord Souls being found.

Nito would be tied to the population after the fire the way I see it. His personal timeline would be:
-Everyone is in limbo
-Fire happens then everyone starts living
-People start dying
-At some point, restless souls begin coalescing. It would make sense that, with nowhere to go they just hung out around their physical remains which would of course become skeletons at some point. From a standpoint of human nature, death being new to these beings their first response to death might be something akin to "toss the bodies in a pile." Huge pile of bodies means huge congregation of lost souls.
-Conglomerate of souls achieves new level of being and finds a Lord Soul
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

Mr_Rift

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:33 pm
Souls: 5,690.00
Posts: 993
Reputation: 37
#6
skarekrow13 wrote:Of note is that Gwyn is said to have his knights already (the Witch has her daughters too). I would think that this suggests a possible passage of time from "Then there was fire" to the Lord Souls being found.


This is the main point of contention for me, for how much time needs to pass for that level of social complexity to arise?

For me, either there were already people around before the first flame and it's just a story, or as you say, there was a sizable chunk of time between the arrival of fire and the lord souls being found.

Either way, to bring it back to point, I'm of the opinion that people, giant or human, lived and died before the arrival of Nito.
Avatar

hollowriller

Casual
Convict

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:06 pm
Souls: 75.00
Bank: 418.00
Posts: 74
Reputation: 10
#7
there exist people that are not cursed and as such when they die will go to heaven/hell or what the corresponding place is, the church sent those branded with the dark sign to search for the rite of kindling and if everyone was branded that would be a LOT of people crowding the catacombs.

so there is a place for souls to go to after they died and the only ones that remain are the cursed ones, going by the same line of thought as the ones above, Nito can be the collected mind of the cursed that have lost their own body, the vesel that kept them togheter, to keep themself from being immaterial they could use the lord souls as a nuxleus to make a new vesel to contain all the lost souls, it would also explain why he is at the bottom of the giants tomb.

the giants tomb should have a large enough collection of bones to make said nuxleus and would be the logical place to settle down in peace, the skeletons that are around could be some of the souls Nito is made of, transfered into vacated homes (skeleton) thus the skeletons that suround him.

it is only my own thoughts, but the way i see it, it would explain somethings.
Avatar

Mr_Rift

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:33 pm
Souls: 5,690.00
Posts: 993
Reputation: 37
#8
Do we actually know that non-cursed people go to a heaven or hell realm? I know there's a church and all that, but is it's beliefs in such matters listed anywhere? The gods/lords seem kind of busy walking around the physical realm, I don't recall reading about any other.

Which again, leads me to believe that they're just super-powered mortals who never actually leave this one realm...
Avatar

Icegodzilla

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:00 pm
Location: USA
Souls: 3,243.00
Posts: 1269
Reputation: 27
Wiki Edits: 3
#9
hmmm forgot to think about the possibility that he is a collection of lost souls and depravity and etc.

So what about the rest of the skeletons are they just his creations then or are they similar to how he was formed, just to a lesser status?

Godzilla the Rock always up for jolly co op
Avatar

Mr_Rift

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:33 pm
Souls: 5,690.00
Posts: 993
Reputation: 37
#10
Well, there are necromancers in the game... they don't seem to have any spells that affect you as an undead, merely the skeletons being raised over and over. So maybe the skeletons are more animated bones, rather than true undead?
1