Dedicated to digging into the game's lore. Bring your thinking caps.
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ParadigmEnigma

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#1
So I was reading through the "Is Ornstein an Illusion" thread and saw someone mention a line of cut dialog from Cairan about how Artorias' Ring (the Wolf Ring) was stolen by a man in a long coat.

This got me thinking. What exactly is Chester's place in the lore?

As far as I know, the only concrete info we have on Chester is that he was brought there by the same "dark hand" that brought you there as well.

We have the cut dialog from Cairan about how Artorias' Ring (the Wolf Ring) was stolen by a man in a long coat.

Coincidentally, Chester, who seems to wear a long coat, just so happens to be standing not too far from the point in which you fight Artorias.

This does not seem like too much of a stretch, because of a few other things we know about Chester.

Chester invades your world and attempts to kill you.

Chester sells items, but his wares seem to be more expensive than they are when being sold by other merchants.

This leads me to believe that Chester makes a living off of invading others, killing them, stripping them of their stuff, and then selling that stuff to others at a significant price hike. All with the intent of invading these customers later to reclaim what was sold to start the process all over again.

The combination of these things leads me to believe that "the man in the long coat" that Cairan mentions in the cut dialog is actually a reference to Chester. The question of how he was able to steal the ring from Artorias I am still uncertain on, as it would either have to have happened BEFORE you fight Artorias (which does not make a whole lot of sense since I don't see Chester fairing well against Artorias), or AFTER we fight Artorias but before Cairan shows up (which raises the question of why Artorias doesn't drop the ring when you beat him).

This all leads me up to where we DO find the Wolf Ring, on a random unnamed corpse in Darkwood Garden. Keeping with the Chester line of thinking, it occurred to me that Darkwood Garden (where the Wolf Ring is found) shares a striking resemblance to the Royal Woods (where both Artorias and Chester reside).

So I pose the question to you all. Is it possible that the Royal Woods of the past is actually the Darkwood Garden of the present, and that the random unnamed corpse we find the Wolf Ring on, is actually the long dead corpse of Chester?

Thoughts?

Off-topic edit: I totally just realized that the two Rickert characters in the game are an obvious reference to Berserk, how this escaped me up until now I have no idea, since I have been a Berserk fan practically since it started, and a big part of what initially drew me to DKS were the images of Artorias(which is again, obviously modeled off of Gutts and the Berserker armor).
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skarekrow13

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#2
Darkroot is all but confirmed to be the Royal Wood. I say "all but" because the company hasn't gone on record with it but the map is near identical. Basically all the evidence actually. Ok, all the evidence.

I think the intent with the cut dialogue would have been to imply exactly what you're saying. It's possible it was cut for exactly the questions you're asking. Primarily the "when." Now we all know enemies don't just drop everything they own (like Skyrim's more realistic looting model for example). So he could just die and not leave the ring for us. However that's not a satisfactory answer as Chester then loots it so why couldn't we?

Overall I feel the reason most unique equipment can't be looted straight up is size differences. We can't just take his giant armor and sword, a replica needs to be crafted. The souls provide the innate abilities of the original gear while the smith crafts the steel.

So my best answer is that this might be the thinking behind not including the dialogue. Chester could have a small window to loot before Ciaran arrives (it could actually be a big window since time is distorted) but it raises the bigger questions of "why can't we take the ring right then" and "doesn't Chester taking the ring at that point go against the rules of enemy drops?"

I know Ornstein drops a ring so maybe magic rings auto size (there's enough mythology behind that idea) but then your question I keep coming back to still didn't get answered. "Why can't we have it? We killed the guy and if rings auto size then it should be lootable."

My next best guess has some evidence to go with it. Artorias left a lot of belongings in other places, perhaps knowing he'd fall. He left his first sword and shield to Sif. Was the ring left for someone? A lover perhaps? She was intended to say the ring was stolen. But does the dialogue say FROM whom it was stolen. It was stolen by a man in a long coat. She knows that somehow. Did he take it from her?

My last guess makes sense too I suppose. Artorias isn't in good shape when we meet him. We don't know how long he's been cuckoo. Ciaran knows a little about the thief. If she didn't see him then she was told about him. If Artorias told her it was before he went nuts and before we meet him. Therefore the ring isn't on him when we kill him.
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junker154

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#3
skarekrow13 wrote:It's possible it was cut for exactly the questions you're asking. Primarily the "when." Now we all know enemies don't just drop everything they own (like Skyrim's more realistic looting model for example). So he could just die and not leave the ring for us. However that's not a satisfactory answer as Chester then loots it so why couldn't we?

Overall I feel the reason most unique equipment can't be looted straight up is size differences. We can't just take his giant armor and sword, a replica needs to be crafted. The souls provide the innate abilities of the original gear while the smith crafts the steel.

So my best answer is that this might be the thinking behind not including the dialogue. Chester could have a small window to loot before Ciaran arrives (it could actually be a big window since time is distorted) but it raises the bigger questions of "why can't we take the ring right then" and "doesn't Chester taking the ring at that point go against the rules of enemy drops?"

I know Ornstein drops a ring so maybe magic rings auto size (there's enough mythology behind that idea) but then your question I keep coming back to still didn't get answered. "Why can't we have it? We killed the guy and if rings auto size then it should be lootable."

My next best guess has some evidence to go with it. Artorias left a lot of belongings in other places, perhaps knowing he'd fall. He left his first sword and shield to Sif. Was the ring left for someone? A lover perhaps? She was intended to say the ring was stolen. But does the dialogue say FROM whom it was stolen. It was stolen by a man in a long coat. She knows that somehow. Did he take it from her?

My last guess makes sense too I suppose. Artorias isn't in good shape when we meet him. We don't know how long he's been cuckoo. Ciaran knows a little about the thief. If she didn't see him then she was told about him. If Artorias told her it was before he went nuts and before we meet him. Therefore the ring isn't on him when we kill him.


I think this is more of a pure gameplay mechanic than actual storyelements, it's probably because of balancing. Furthermore Skyrim is a completely different game with different mechanics, both cannot be compared. The thing with the different sizes sounds ridiculous at best.

As for OP, it's really interesting. Seeing as the DLC was planned to be in the main game right from the bat. There is a big chance that the corpse with the Wolf Ring is Chester.
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#4
Thats a very interesting theory. It would fit to Chesters character. But why is Chester lying at Artorias´ grave? Was he killed by Sif?
Chester is a mysterious character indeed, theres just no information about him.
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#5
Oh, I believe you're confusing something.

The corpse at Artorias' grave holds on to the Hornet Ring, which belongs to Ciaran. Since it's more or less confirmed they were more than close, I think it's not far fetched that she died from natural causes, having stayed there, mourning over his grave for the rest of her life.

The corpse with the Wolf Ring is on the ledge where you can see the Moonlight Butterfly from afar the first time. I never thought about it before - also I had neither intel from all the cut content - but it makes perfect sense that this is Chester. The theft is not really too much of a mystery in my opinion: He waited for your character to defeat Artorias, then followed you and stripped it right off the corpse. He makes his way through the arena for certain, since he invades you a couple of meters later in the Township. Ciaran probably saw him, but I have no trouble believing he's crafty and swift enough to evade her anyways - maybe even by invading the PC.

That very last part is just a wager however, as is the explanation to why the player character can't loot the ring. Why can't we strip Havel's gear right of his dead body, nor (being a major figure in the lore) get a special soul? Because the developers thought it works best that way. Why do all items, no matter how trivial, glow in special magic light? Why are dropped items just floating, holographic symbols?

It's the kind of stuff where one needs to stop going into detail. But as for the theory/proof itself, thanks for tickling my brain with that realization, OP - good find!
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#6
I somewhat see his character to be a red herring though not to the same extent as solaire. Just my opinion. Mind you.
#7
My theory is that the ring was stolen long before Artorias arrived at the arena. If you think on it for a second, Artorias was at full strength (Health, Stamina, had his greatshield on him, blah blah...) when he fought Manus. How is it that he lost to Manus considering he could wipe the floor with you when he's CRIPPLED!!! My answer: during the key moments of the fight with Manus, Chester intervened with a sniper shot or razor sharp...roses to Artorias' shield arm, and at that moment was crushed by one of Manus' Dark spells and thus shattering his guard (and his arm). Arty getting beat up, Sif in trouble, Arty gives him his shield since he can't use it, goes full Abyss mode on Manus and gives him a near fatal wound, scares off Manus, and Manus retracts the Abyss so Arty cant pursue. Losing his sanity, he wanders away in search of 'Dark' enemy's and fails to retrieve Sif and Chester comes by later and picks up the Wolf Ring, which either fell off during battle or as Artorias was walking out of the place.

...I hope that makes since.

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#8
You explained it well but it doesn't make sense. Chester displays a good amount of tact by letting you handle Artorias. I highly doubt (pretty much know for a fact) That he did not travel all the way down to manus' lair. He would have been killed as it is hard enough for the player at first. Not to mention the fact that it would have been smarter and less work to just rob it off him after manus was done.
#9
Adherent of Cinder wrote:You explained it well but it doesn't make sense. Chester displays a good amount of tact by letting you handle Artorias. I highly doubt (pretty much know for a fact) That he did not travel all the way down to manus' lair. He would have been killed as it is hard enough for the player at first. Not to mention the fact that it would have been smarter and less work to just rob it off him after manus was done.


That's to assume that Arty didn't kill everything in his way before the fight. He could have very well have waited for an opportunity to get to him, knowing that a frontal attack (like he does with his other victims and you) would have been suicide. Probably saw Manus as a magnet for fools with good loot so he decided to make sure that Manus survived. He is very shady character that hides his motives very well. After all, he is a businessman...and business was good, until you showed up and defeated him.

Also, to address why the Wolf Ring was not on Chester when you kill him (either as Black Phantom or when he is at his camp) is probably because he already sold it.

Probably for 20000 souls, that bastard!
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#10
There's also the fact that there was a weapon called Chester's Black Zweihander that was removed from the game but can actually be found where you fight Sif, as shown here:

Image

Just something that may be interesting...
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