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retro

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#1
First off, apologies if any of this appears familiar. When doing some of my testing, I've posted threads asking questions and sharing some findings here and there. Now that I've completed most of the testing I've wanted to, I wanted to post a review of all the formulas in one place.

Most of this isn't new information, but I see a lot of uncertainty and incorrect formulas shared from time to time, so I wanted to hopefully clear things up and provide formulas that people should (hopefully) be able to trust as being exact.

Some starting info-

All ranges are calculated by the player using the corresponding items, never are they calculated by the found player or those who see and interact with summon signs. The matchmaking for levels is a one-way process that ONLY does the math based on the level of the person using multiplayer-items.

As counterintuitive as it may seem, this means a host looking for white signs can't use the formula below, it won't work exactly. Instead, do the math from the phantoms' perspective, and if the host is found within their range, then the host will be able to see their sign.

White Sign Soapstone
+ / - (10 + 10% of the item-user's level)

Level 50 can be matched with: 35-65
Level 100 can be matched with: 80-120

notes: I cannot stress enough that this doesn't work from the host's perspective.
A level 100 host will be able to see signs from phantoms between the levels of 82-122, a different range than the player using the soapstone.

Red Sign Soapstone
-(10 + 10% of the item-user's level), or any level higher

Level 50 can be matched with: 35-713
Level 100 can be matched with: 80-713

Red Eye Orb
-10% of the item-user's level, or any level higher

Level 50 can be matched with: 45-713
Level 100 can be matched with: 90-713

notes: Surprisingly, not the exact same range as the Red Sign Soapstone.

Blue Eye Orb
Lower Level Limit: - (50 + 20% of the item-user's level)
Upper Level Limit: + (10 + 10% of the item-user's level)

Level 100 can be matched with: 30-120
Level 200 can be matched with: 110-230

notes: Contrary to popular belief, it has been very carefully tested (using new tools available through modding) and found that Sin has no impact on the level range. Instead, two different calculations find the upper and lower level limits. It is a fixed amount based on the invader's level. The Darkmoon Ring has the same range as the Blue Eye Orb.


Cat Covenant Ring
-(10 + 10% of the item-user's level), or any level higher

Level 50 can be matched with: 35-713
Level 100 can be matched with: 80-713

notes: Contrary to popular belief, this ring and the forest are not without level restrictions. This ring has the same level range as the Red Sign Soapstone.

Eye of Death
+ / - (10 + 10% of the item-user's level)

Level 50 can be matched with: 35-65
Level 100 can be matched with: 80-120

notes: Same as the white sign soapstone.

Lastly, I have yet to personally test the Cracked Red Eye Orbs and the Dragon Eye. From what I've read, the Dragon Eye should be exactly the same as the White Sign Soapstone and Eye of Death, while the cracked orbs are likely the same as the orb.

General

-This looks messy, no way I can remember all of that!

It's pretty simple. Almost every item uses the "co-op" range in some way. Everything is either just like the white sign soapstone, or uses the same range on the upper or bottom end only and removes the level cap from the other end (allowing for invading far above or below your level). The ONLY exception appears to be the Red Eye Orb. Instead of using the complete "10 + 10%" formula, it drops the first "10" from the equation.

EDIT: Also, the Blue Eye Orb also uses a unique formula to find the lower level limit.

-How does the rounding work?

When you calculate the percentage part of the formula, the resulting decimal place is always truncated into non-existance (or you could also say it always rounds down to the nearest whole number, even if it's .9).

For example, a level 59 player trying to find out their co-op range simply calculates +/- 15. This is because for the "10 + 10%" part of the formula, it's actually just "10 + 5", not "10 + 5.9".

-Isn't co-op range actually 15%? Hasn't this been tested?

I've seen this mentioned a bunch, but I'm confident it's a mistake. And what do people mean exactly, 10 + 15% or just 15%? Either way, neither of those formulas seem to work. 10 + 15% almost works when you try to calculate from the host's perspective, which is how I believe people came to think this, but it still doesn't really work that way (it'll give you a very-wrong lower limit, and a slightly-wrong upper limit).

-Don't subros have an expanded range?

I really don't think so. I think people made the mistake of trying to calculate the range from the host's perspective. I believe 10 + 10% explains the range exactly and correctly when you calculate from the phantom's perspective, for everyone including sunbros.

-What about the forest?

It has level restrictions. Yes, you can invade any level higher, but that's no different than the Red Eye Orb and the Red Sign Soapstone. You can't invade below co-op range as a Forest Hunter, and all other items maintain their normal level ranges when used in the forest.

Most testing was done in 1.05, but some retesting has been done in 1.06 and nothing has appeared to change.
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

retro

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#2
Another player also just sent me the results of a lot of testing in the Forest, and confirmed my formula.

It's nice having confirmation from someone else, because during my earlier testing when I made posts about the Cat Covenant Ring, the idea that it does have restrictions was usually doubted. Image

Revoltage

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#3
I've never been clear about the range for the blue eye orb, so this was very helpful. Really informative!

mugenis4real

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#4
This is really good stuff, it should be directly added to the Wiki.

DoughGuy

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#5
Some of this was known to me but stuff like being from the phants perspective and the forest was new and I'm glad you've nailed everything down. Good work +1.

DoughGuy

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#6
Btw Retro have you added this to the wiki?

CaligoIllioneus

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#7
Nice information, and well organized. +1 ^^
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Tolvo

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#8
By the way if the Cat Ring section gets updated with correct information, I'd love to add this the Resources Thread.
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retro

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#9
Cool!

The cat covenant ring section should be correct, it's probably the most heavily-tested item. I'm near certain that people are confusing different invasion types or are misremembering hosting vs. invading when they doubt the given formula. If you write down the souls dropped by hosts (and not white phantoms) as a Forest Hunter invader, you'll find that you're never invading below the range of the white sign soapstone. Image

edit: I should add that the wiki currently agrees with me, although it's not as clear:
Forest Hunter Page wrote:The Cat Covenant Ring ignores the normal level range for invasions. As a result, a level 20 player may invade the world of a level 50 player ( not vice versa). (At level 52 I have consistently been invaded by my friend in this covenant at level 68.)

-The "not vice versa" part means that someone else noticed that the level 50 player cannot invade down to the level 20 player.
-Applying my formula to the level 68 character, 68 minus 17 = 51 (the decimal place of 16.8 rounds to 17). So the level 68 player being able to invade level 52 is within the expected level range.

retro

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#10
Oh, someone stickied this! Thank you.

I was going to post an update about the Darkmoon Sin thing. Here's what the wiki says:
Important Note: testing following Patch 1.05 indicates that Sin acquired from being indicted for killing a player, which cannot be removed by speaking with Carim, is added to this formula in a 1:1 ratio to level to allow high level Dark Moon Blades to invade and punish player killers even if those players are very low level. For example, a level 20 Darkwraith who has been indicted 80 times after slaying other players could be invaded by a level 100 Dark Moon Blade using the Blue Eye Orb.

I do not believe this is true. It would great if I could find out who tested it and what their exact methods were.
edit: It was befowler who first added it to the page on Jul 10, 2012. I'll send him a friendly message soon and see if we can figure out what's up.

I did some testing, and with a level 100 host with 13 sin logged in the Book of the Guilty, I was invaded by a level 155 Darkmoon.

If we follow this 1:1 mechanic, I would've needed at least 29 sin for the level 155 Darkmoon to invade down to my level. As the lower end of co-op range for level 155 is level 129, and I'm another 29 levels below that. My character was not BB glitched.
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