Change My View:- Liara's Trilogy Romance Is Poorly Written

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by Monica21 » Tue May 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Which ME3 romances do you think are good? None came across as great to me, and some were horrible. Ex: Miranda. Regarding ME1, I personally feel Ashley's is the worst; especially how she ninjamances you just by talking to her. Kaidan's actually had the most content, but it has been said many times before. He is a bland character. He has a lot of dialogue, yet he never felt "real" to me. He is like a Disney character; too clear-headed all the time and can't believably be angry. How is he in the military?


Miranda's ME3 romance isn't horrible; she's just not there. And it wasn't my male Shep's idea to keep her off the Normandy, but I can't think of a good reason for her to be on the Normandy. And I think Garrus had the most romance content, actually. Or at least, the most crew member interaction which in turn led to flirt lines if you were romancing him. I was really disappointed with the level of interaction I got from Kaidan in ME3, and even more so when I romanced Garrus and saw the difference.


by Shechinah » Tue May 17, 2016 12:27 pm

Armor, not bloody shirt. Again, it can be done to honor them. Legion goes around wearing part of Shepard's armor, yet I never hear anyone complain.

Point and comparison remains: it is the broken armor that Shepard suffocated horribly to death in as they began burning in the orbit of a planet. There are some who are not bothered by this and some who are.

I think the reason people are less on about Legion doing it, is because Legion is a machine composed artificial programs that do not know social conduct nor experience emotions amongst other things.

Additionally, some see Legion's usage of the armor as less unsettling because Legion used the armor to repair itself with and do not understand why it did so which goes back around to the above of Legion being a platform of artificial programs. This is less unsettling to some people than Liara's usage of the armor which was to put it on a private display in her apartment.
 




by congokong » Tue May 17, 2016 12:24 pm

I thought her LotSB romance was alright, but yeah, her ME1 and ME3 romance were garbage, her ME1 romance especially made me cringe.

Which ME3 romances do you think are good? None came across as great to me, and some were horrible. Ex: Miranda. Regarding ME1, I personally feel Ashley's is the worst; especially how she ninjamances you just by talking to her. Kaidan's actually had the most content, but it has been said many times before. He is a bland character. He has a lot of dialogue, yet he never felt "real" to me. He is like a Disney character; too clear-headed all the time and can't believably be angry. How is he in the military?


by BaaBaaBlacksheep » Tue May 17, 2016 12:20 pm
What they should've done is to make Liara pregnant from Shepard, so they can have a reason of what they fighting for. Fighting for their children would be a much stronger bond with Liara and Shepard.


by congokong » Tue May 17, 2016 12:15 pm

You mean the fully-clothed hugging-groping scene and the gasping black eye thing? Its a downgrade from ME1's kissing-groping and naked humping. Then again all romance in ME2 was as cringey as DAO's love scenes.
 
But the word "romance" is an odd thing to describe the relationship between Liara and Shepard and the best comparison I have was unfortunately, Twilight. An innocent naive girl from broken family who found herself enthralled by a mysterious sexy stranger who have the tendency to save her life in repeat. One of them was over a hundred years old youthful creature with the ability to read minds and like to stalk the other. In a very short time, while they barely knew each other and yet they became so devoted to each other to the extreme after a brief connection they had. They had various displays of affections that was should have been conventionally invasive and manipulative, but was very widely perceived as deeply romantic. One character was intended to be a self-insertion. And another was a sexual fantasy that came true. .. ..... .... .... .... *gasp* wait, I'm referring who and who again?
 
However, a well-written romance, should have a clear separation between love and infatuation. Liara display a lot of flagged behavior that was worrying and not many of us see repetitive invasion of privacy and displays of unsubtle emotional manipulation techniques as remotely flattering, especially with how the game was written to favor keeping her happy and Shepard being totally comfortable with all of it. Frankly, if all this is about "hating" than simply a character criticism, you would see a lot of one liner about how so and so is  "ugly" and "boring" and "completely hate them" and "I always let them die", and you wouldn't see people exploring a character in details that people tend to overlook; like how a broken armor in a display case is deeply unnerving to people who don't romance her or want that attention from her. And I have romanced Liara.


In the end, it is all subjective. I really enjoy the Liara romance and, while I am no fan of Twilight, many people are. Apparently, that romantic angle is what many people want.


by congokong » Tue May 17, 2016 12:11 pm

There is a bit of a difference between putting a signed football of a favorite athlete in a display case and putting the bloody and torn shirt that said favorite athlete died horribly in, in a display case especially as a way of respecting and remembering them.  
 
This is part of why the armor on display rubs some people the wrong way. If it had been something else like a crew photo or even a piece of the Normandy then that would have been something else.


Armor, not bloody shirt. Again, it can be done to honor them. Legion goes around wearing part of Shepard's armor, yet I never hear anyone complain.


by introverted_assassin » Tue May 17, 2016 12:08 pm
Never knew that this was a thing that people took issue with but I'm puposely disconnected from the fandom for a reason so...

I guess because I get the way her character progressed that I don't see it as poor. I just wish they didn't set it up like they did in ME3...I can only guess that they set it up that way because of the looming thematic of war and death and Liara pretty much wants one less thing to worry about, if she can help it. I mean as soon as you visit her spot in the Normandy she asks...there is no real in game justification other than the war so idk. It felt like her thirst was too strong but I honestly never cared...any Shepard I had romancing her was completely okay with that.

As for the unrequited love thing or the ninjamancing...she asks you...straight up to see what's good. there's nothing ninja about that like...she asks for clarification since she has no experience dealing with romantic matters. It isn't a cryptic question(like certain other creepy *** crew mates). I see nothing wrong with her candid way of doing so and once you tell her nah, that's the end of it...unlike other creepy crew members who still ask you again in the third game when you rejected them in the first one. :ph34r:


by aoibhealfae » Tue May 17, 2016 12:08 pm

LotSB wasn't romantic at all? That cabin scene was the most romantic in the trilogy IMO.

As for her "obsession," I have mixed feelings.

First, often people argue that you barely realize you're even in an romance with her throughout ME3 for someone so "obsessed" with Shepard.

Second, the whole trophy in her apartment thing can be interpreted in different ways. When people put a signed football from their favorite athlete in a display case, no one thinks anything of it. But if Liara puts the armor remnants of an until recently dead Shepard on display, she's obsessed? She makes no secret that she greatly appreciates and respects everything that Shepard does. Liara's one of the few to give anywhere near the thanks Shepard deserves actually. Putting that armor up might be done out of respect and as a way to remember Shepard.

Now, in defense of the obsession angle, there are some definite things that raise eyebrows. For example, if you have a one night stand with Jack, she somehow knows about it. How? She had no direct contact with the Normandy, and certainly shouldn't know about that. She also knew exactly where the specific people (Thane and Samara) were on Illium by memory? Coincidence? Doubtful. She had almost certainly been spying on Shepard beforehand and readied herself with the information.

As a near exclusive Liaramancer, the obsession hints never really bothered me. I can see how someone who doesn't romance her, and especially those who for some reason hate her, would not like it though.

You mean the fully-clothed hugging-groping scene and the gasping black eye thing? Its a downgrade from ME1's kissing-groping and naked humping. Then again all romance in ME2 was as cringey as DAO's love scenes.

But the word "romance" is an odd thing to describe the relationship between Liara and Shepard and the best comparison I have was unfortunately, Twilight. An innocent naive girl from broken family who found herself enthralled by a mysterious sexy stranger who have the tendency to save her life in repeat. One of them was over a hundred years old youthful creature with the ability to read minds and like to stalk the other. In a very short time, while they barely knew each other and yet they became so devoted to each other to the extreme after a brief connection they had. They had various displays of affections that was should have been conventionally invasive and manipulative, but was very widely perceived as deeply romantic. One character was intended to be a self-insertion. And another was a sexual fantasy that came true. .. ..... .... .... .... *gasp* wait, I'm referring who and who again?

However, a well-written romance, should have a clear separation between love and infatuation. Liara display a lot of flagged behavior that was worrying and not many of us see repetitive invasion of privacy and displays of unsubtle emotional manipulation techniques as remotely flattering, especially with how the game was written to favor keeping her happy and Shepard being totally comfortable with all of it. Frankly, if all this is about "hating" than simply a character criticism, you would see a lot of one liner about how so and so is  "ugly" and "boring" and "completely hate them" and "I always let them die", and you wouldn't see people exploring a character in details that people tend to overlook; like how a broken armor in a display case is deeply unnerving to people who don't romance her or want that attention from her. And I have romanced Liara.




by Daemul » Tue May 17, 2016 9:30 am

I thought her LotSB romance was alright, but yeah, her ME1 and ME3 romance were garbage, her ME1 romance especially made me cringe. 




by Shechinah » Tue May 17, 2016 6:11 am

Second, the whole trophy in her apartment thing can be interpreted in different ways. When people put a signed football from their favorite athlete in a display case, no one thinks anything of it. But if Liara puts the armor remnants of an until recently dead Shepard on display, she's obsessed? She makes no secret that she greatly appreciates and respects everything that Shepard does. Liara's one of the few to give anywhere near the thanks Shepard deserves actually. Putting that armor up might be done out of respect and as a way to remember Shepard.

There is a bit of a difference between putting a signed football of a favorite athlete in a display case and putting the bloody and torn shirt that said favorite athlete died horribly in, in a display case especially as a way of respecting and remembering them.  

This is part of why the armor on display rubs some people the wrong way. If it had been something else like a crew photo or even a piece of the Normandy then that would have been something else.