For the PvP nuts! Debate tactics, discuss builds, and set up duels. Play nice.
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#21
Oh good, you're being deliberately insulting so I'm done helping/offering to help you.

I in fact wouldn't because A: I'm pretty bad with a mura, cgs just feel strange to me, B: if I was winning consistently it would be proving my point for me, and C: Just because I think what you're doing is stupid doesn't mean I'm incapable of or unwilling to help you do it better and D: sparring with upgraded weapons is not ideal for practicing specific techniques. I'd have been using a +0 weapon which would make beating you a pretty serious challenge even using my best weapons if you were using a +10 bastard sword.
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AscendedMastery

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#22
I'm not deliberately insulting you, I'm saying what I think about you based on what you've given me to work with.

A: I'm pretty bad in general. Oh well.
B: Based on what you've shown me, I can only deduce that you'd take every chance you could to point out why whatever I'm doing is pointless in your eyes.
C: Oh really? Then why didn't you just stick to that from the beginning, and there wouldn't have been a problem, would there?
D: I know that. But what makes you think I'd be using a +10 weapon if you were using a basic one? It's practice, the point of practice is to improve my skills, not win the practice match.

To you, winning must be everything. Everything short of it is pointless and a waste of time to you, is it? And methods that aren't 100% advantageous are a waste of time because "you might not win". If such is the case, you couldn't possibly comprehend why I play the way I play.
lit·er·al
/ˈlidərəl,ˈlitrəl/
adjective

taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

su·per·flu·ous
/so͞oˈpərflo͞oəs/
adjective

unnecessary, especially through being more than enough.
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#23
Yeah, insulting. I don't know how you could possibly see that as anything else as I very clearly speak english fairly well and that isn't a complex sentence. I'm not buying that BS.

You don't know me. Maybe ask someone I've actually practiced with or who does hmm? Thinking it's pointless isn't the same as going out of my way to point it out after the 37th time.

Remember how "I'd prefer not to" and "I'm unwilling to don't bother" aren't the same thing? Remember that, up until this post, every post has things you can do or things you shouldn't be doing against a mura? Also offering alternatives, especially as you didn't indicate you aren't willing to consider them, isn't a bad thing.

Which is why you use +0 weapons to remove the risk of death while still getting to see all your mistakes and so practice for longer, and makes the winning point moot.

I main a DGM and a reinforced club. They're very difficult to use against anyone half decent. I win with fairly detailed baiting tactics. If all I wanted was to win I'd never use any weapon but a demon's spear because it out ranges every melee attack and will shield-poke against bows and magic so it's almost always safe to attack with 0 risk of punishment and I'd have recommended twop+wog spam to go with it just to be 98% sure nobody can ever touch me. The difference is when I'm faced with a spear or halberd I'm just not beating with the dgm setup, I use an offhand crossbow (and didn't insult the person who recommended it.)
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
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AscendedMastery

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#25
Forum_Pirate wrote:Yeah, insulting. I don't know how you could possibly see that as anything else as I very clearly speak english fairly well and that isn't a complex sentence. I'm not buying that BS.

You don't know me. Maybe ask someone I've actually practiced with or who does hmm? Thinking it's pointless isn't the same as going out of my way to point it out after the 37th time.

Remember how "I'd prefer not to" and "I'm unwilling to don't bother" aren't the same thing? Remember that, up until this post, every post has things you can do or things you shouldn't be doing against a mura? Also offering alternatives, especially as you didn't indicate you aren't willing to consider them, isn't a bad thing.

Which is why you use +0 weapons to remove the risk of death while still getting to see all your mistakes and so practice for longer, and makes the winning point moot.

I main a DGM and a reinforced club. They're very difficult to use against anyone half decent. I win with fairly detailed baiting tactics. If all I wanted was to win I'd never use any weapon but a demon's spear because it out ranges every melee attack and will shield-poke against bows and magic so it's almost always safe to attack with 0 risk of punishment and I'd have recommended twop+wog spam to go with it just to be 98% sure nobody can ever touch me. The difference is when I'm faced with a spear or halberd I'm just not beating with the dgm setup, I use an offhand crossbow (and didn't insult the person who recommended it.)

Here's the deal. This is my thread, if I want to dismiss the advice you give me, that's my right. I said I didn't want setup advice, I know how to do that on my own, I don't need your advice. That's basic knowledge for anyone halfway involved in PvP, which I more than am. You can deny that you're nitpicky, or that you have trouble comprehending things if they aren't super specific all day long, but unless you actually back it up with some evidence you're just blowing hot air.

The bottom line is: I didn't want to change my gear. I shouldn't have to say I'm unwilling for you to get the fact that I don't want to. And like I said about two times already, if you'd given any indication that you acknowledged my preference not to change my gear, I wouldn't have treated you like you're stupid.

Spears can be parried, and if the opponent is good at playing aggressively, you won't be safe from parries, you'll never have enough time to cast twop, and the surprise wog will just be rolled through. There's a strategy that doesn't require changing your setup, it can be done with any weapon that has the ability to riposte.
lit·er·al
/ˈlidərəl,ˈlitrəl/
adjective

taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

su·per·flu·ous
/so͞oˈpərflo͞oəs/
adjective

unnecessary, especially through being more than enough.
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#26
Yes you do.

No you didn't. You said you'd prefer not to. If you mean you are unwilling to and such advice is unwelcome then that is what you say. Then if you get such advice anyways you refer to the OP or ignore it, not insult people who a preference as something other than a hard fast rule. (I prefer eating cheese cake to anything else, I do not refuse to eat other foods.)

I did give you things to do, or not do, that work with your weapon.

Spears can be parried up close or if they attack more than once in a row. It's impossible to parry them at the edge of their range and even when you start to be close enough parry them there is a space where you can't close the distance in time to riposte. Play keep away and don't attack if they're close enough to respond offensively and there is nothing to do but break out your own spear. Twop is precast or cast as you gesture or buff, or from around a corner, so you can't stop it or avoid the dead angle wog spam followed by BS death (generally with a rapier, usually the spear kiting is for if you survive 10 seconds of Twog). They have to make a huge mistake to even take damage, much less lose.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
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AscendedMastery

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#27
Forum_Pirate wrote:Yes you do.

No you didn't. You said you'd prefer not to. If you mean you are unwilling to and such advice is unwelcome then that is what you say. Then if you get such advice anyways you refer to the OP or ignore it, not insult people who a preference as something other than a hard fast rule. (I prefer eating cheese cake to anything else, I do not refuse to eat other foods.)

I did give you things to do, or not do, that work with your weapon.

Spears can be parried up close or if they attack more than once in a row. It's impossible to parry them at the edge of their range and even when you start to be close enough parry them there is a space where you can't close the distance in time to riposte. Play keep away and don't attack if they're close enough to respond offensively and there is nothing to do but break out your own spear. Twop is precast or cast as you gesture or buff, or from around a corner, so you can't stop it or avoid the dead angle wog spam followed by BS death (generally with a rapier, usually the spear kiting is for if you survive 10 seconds of Twog). They have to make a huge mistake to even take damage, much less lose.

I shouldn't have to say I'm unwilling for you to have the decency not to give contrary advice. The fact that I have a preference should speak for itself, and even then, like I said, there's some etiquette involved in offering contradictory advice. What do you expect? Like I said. You've made yourself out to be someone who can't make reasonable assumptions or just doesn't give a **** about peoples' preferences. You think it's strange that I'd question your ability to comprehend?

If someone pokes you with a spear, and you roll through it, they can continue the combo, and get parried. They can roll away, while you run into them, and if they try to R1, they'll get parried. They can anticipate your parry and backstab you, or they can delay an R1 or R2 to mess up your parry. This comes down to mind games, and it literally doesn't matter what your equipment is at this point, making your point null.

Twop is something you can set off while gesturing, but it's only going to work once, and that's only if they aren't already alert. If you can't get twop off, wog is useless. Even if you dead angle, a good player will just roll through it and backstab you.
lit·er·al
/ˈlidərəl,ˈlitrəl/
adjective

taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

su·per·flu·ous
/so͞oˈpərflo͞oəs/
adjective

unnecessary, especially through being more than enough.
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#28
Bull ****. I just explained that. You being completely unwilling to do anything else because you have a preference is an unreasonable assumption. People voluntarily go against preferences all the time, which I illustrated. Incidentally I expected the same thing the forum rules do, you to simply clarify that you're unwilling instead of being insulting.


I mentioned that. Only attack once each time you attack. No combos, no spam. Only if you're spriniting and if anyone is attacking while someone sprints forward, they deserve to lose (and even the the DWGR dissagrees). It's not mind games, it's a simple set of rules that if adhered to by a patient player make any and all other melee obsolete and futile. The 2 melee weapons that can handle it (if they're lucky) aren't using melee to do it.

Except it also works while the other person buffs or as a precast while you spawn, or from just around corners if you fall for it and chase them. WoG trades are also a thing and then you get bs'd while you're stunned, so not only is it not useless but even if you do stop twop and they make a mistake and allow you to close on them you risk losing half, or all, your hp and them simply casting twop while you recover and repeating the process until you die or returning to kiting range.

I haven't seen anyone do it properly in a while, it's usually unskilled players or ganks, but it's the Akuma of dks. If they're any good and follow the rules, you don't win.
"Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions"
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AscendedMastery

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#29
Forum_Pirate wrote:Bull ****. I just explained that. You being completely unwilling to do anything else because you have a preference is an unreasonable assumption. People voluntarily go against preferences all the time, which I illustrated. Incidentally I expected the same thing the forum rules do, you to simply clarify that you're unwilling instead of being insulting.


I mentioned that. Only attack once each time you attack. No combos, no spam. Only if you're spriniting and if anyone is attacking while someone sprints forward, they deserve to lose (and even the the DWGR dissagrees). It's not mind games, it's a simple set of rules that if adhered to by a patient player make any and all other melee obsolete and futile. The 2 melee weapons that can handle it (if they're lucky) aren't using melee to do it.

Except it also works while the other person buffs or as a precast while you spawn, or from just around corners if you fall for it and chase them. WoG trades are also a thing and then you get bs'd while you're stunned, so not only is it not useless but even if you do stop twop and they make a mistake and allow you to close on them you risk losing half, or all, your hp and them simply casting twop while you recover and repeating the process until you die or returning to kiting range.

I haven't seen anyone do it properly in a while, it's usually unskilled players or ganks, but it's the Akuma of dks. If they're any good and follow the rules, you don't win.

And what part of me saying I don't want to change my setup gave you the idea I maybe did? Just because I didn't specifically refuse? While I may not have "specifically" refused to change my gear, I did "specifically" indicate what I "wanted" to do, and you still gave contradictory advice.

Here is the original quote: "Is there anything I can try? Outside of gearing up differently? I'd prefer to overcome these challenges with my own skill, and not just a different item setup.".

What conclusion do you draw from that? I shouldn't have to write "Oh, by the way, I'm also unwilling just in case it seemed like I was on the fence about it, now you know." for you to make the reasonable assumption that I didn't want to change my item setup. That's a pretty far-fetched assumption on your part.

If you still think it's an unreasonable assumption, then I'd say you're lacking a basic mental skill, sincerely. Call it insulting if you want, but like I said, I'm working with what you've given me. Nothing more, nothing less.

Even if it is a simple set of rules, the rock, paper, scissors aspect are called mindgames. That's basic, why are you arguing this? But let's say they aren't mindgames for a second, let's say they are just rules you have to follow, guidelines perhaps. They can still be followed by both players, and the better one wins. Period. Items don't matter except in closing the gap between a less skilled player and a more skilled player. Items grant a diminishing advantage the better both players' core skills are.
lit·er·al
/ˈlidərəl,ˈlitrəl/
adjective

taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory.

su·per·flu·ous
/so͞oˈpərflo͞oəs/
adjective

unnecessary, especially through being more than enough.
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#30
TSMP wrote:To block a dead angle, you have to unlock and face in the opposite direction the attacking player is facing. Parrying one works the same way.

Have you tested this? I am fairly sure that if you attempted to parry a cross up in this way, it would not work. In Demon's/Dark Souls, you need to parry an attack close to the weapon's hilt. In cross ups, you typically just barely nick the other person. On top of this, your parry hitbox should be all the way on the other side of your character. It probably will not intersect at all with a cross up. Even if it does connect, I wouldn't think it close enough to the hilt to actually result in a parry.
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