Dedicated to digging into the game's lore. Bring your thinking caps.
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Nevis_Ysbrid

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#31
No, those two terms are not synonymous. That's like saying a gamer and a hardcore nerd are synonymous; one is very, very much more extreme in it's definition than the other. Unorthodox simply means outside of the usual or common thread; heresy goes with blasphemy, which is something entirely unsanctioned by the common thread. Unorthodox is when someone practices along lines not too far removed and at least not attacked by the othordox, while the heretical is cried out against, vilified and worse.
For a real-life example, Christian sects oft consider other sects unorthodox, yet they are still Christian, at least; Muslims and Jews still worship the same God as well, though not Messiah. People who call on deities of polytheistic faiths or even the 'Devil' himself, though? Those are heretics, something far, far more extreme and removed by their point of view.
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G_Man

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#32
So its obvious that velka is different from the rest of the gods at this point much in same way that gwyndolyn is, in that they both stayed after all the others left, also while most of the other gods focus on relighing the fires velka just punishes sinners. Maybe the other gods just view velka as an outsider because of how unprioritized velka seems to them.
#33
Ok, maybe technically they aren't "synonyms" in that one of the words has a slightly more focused meaning.

But

Unorthodox: contrary to what is usual, traditional, or accepted; not orthodox.

Heresy: 1 a : adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma

Heresy is just unorthodox when applied to religion.


Blasphemy on the other hand means: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God

In this regard, it's actually possible to be heretical but not blasphemous as long as the difference in opinion isn't one where you hate or insult God. It could even be further extended to the possibility of being blasphemous but not heratical, if your main religion was one that insulted God.

The reason why blasphemy and heresy are commonly connected isn't because they are co-existent but because of people's tendencies to villianize people who hold a different belief then their own.

Velka, by being unorthodox in terms of religion, is by definition heratical. Whether or not she is blasphemous is a different matter, and one that may not be possible if it's to be considered impossible for a god to be blasphemous. (Although it most likely is possible)
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Nevis_Ysbrid

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#34
Note, though, that From definitely invokes that exact zealous tendency in both Demon's Souls and Dark Souls. It's all over the place in Demon's, and implied more than once in Dark. In this setting, heresy basically is blasphemy.

Also, I really don't place much faith in dictionary and especially not internet definitions. Go out and actually use the word around people, and you'll find heresy carries a heavy negative sense.
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#35
This whole thread is becoming convoluted with arguing over vocabulary can we please get back to the actual subject.The idea of the false deities is apparent throughout the game with gwynevere being an illusion and gwyn himself appearing as a burnt out husk, and maybe the gods as we see them in the game arent "gods" but actually extremely powerful undead. they all draw their power from fire and their original strength came from extremely powerful souls. The same kind the player can draw power from.
#36
I think it's kinda exciting that the thread has been able to take such a wide swing. Sure, maybe the discussion shouldn't be about vocabulary in general, but it would be nice to sort out in what way we should interpret the flavor text.

It is flavor text after all, and there's plenty of it that is flat out wrong when applied to the games mechanics. (Things like the channellers trident saying it sends allies into a bloodthirsty, when it actually increases damage and doesn't change aggressiveness)

An interesting point then is in how much can we expect the in game descriptions to fit the lore then. Do we pull out of gameplay, flavor text, or a mixture of both?

Depending on what we use and consider the more accurate source of information, could change the interpretion of Velka.

Like, from the velkas talisman description,

Medium for casting miracles of the Gods.
This black tuft of hair that serves as a
talisman belongs to Velka, Goddess of Sin.

It's extrapolated that she's dark haired, but it doesn't actually say that in the first place.
It's possible that she has hair with different colored parts, or that those aren't head hairs.

One could even point that belonging to Velka, doesn't mean it came off of her body. She may have just happened to own hair that came off of someone else.

Word and meaning interpretation is surprisingly important for determine lore.
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#37
Soul of Stray Demon wrote:It's extrapolated that she's dark haired, but it doesn't actually say that in the first place.
It's possible that she has hair with different colored parts, or that those aren't head hairs.


Both Kamic Justice and Vow of Silence refer to her as "the black-haired witch Velka". That said; ENB makes an interesting observation about the original Japanese text in this video at 6:33.
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#38
The point is still made, even with the words black haired woman, it only means to you how you take it to mean. Great thing about art, there isn't a "wrong" interpretation.
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#39
Soul of Stray Demon wrote:The point is still made, even with the words black haired woman, it only means to you how you take it to mean. Great thing about art, there isn't a "wrong" interpretation.


In some circumstances, yes. In this circumstance, not really.

The initial clue on Velka's Talisman does leave things ambiguous and open to interpretation. You can take that wording either way (Velka's hair is black/Her hair is not black). However, when a second clue comes along that specifically reinforces one possible theory (that her hair is actually black) while providing evidence to contradict the other means that, as long as the evidence itself isn't questionable or uncertain, the theory that is supported is "more correct" than the theory that is contradicted.

So when an official description by FROM calls Velka "a black-haired witch," that means she has black hair. That's not a statement that's open to interpretation.
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#40
The point being made was that most everything is up to interpretion. Well it would be extremely silly to do so, the words "black-haired witch" still only means to you the way you interpret it. She has black hair, but it doesn't say it's on her head. It's just an assumption (even if it's the only "reasonable" assumption to make.)

But yes, common sense is also very important to interpretation, but one's person view isn't automatically wrong just because it goes against common sense either.
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