Anything without a home!
 60
Reply  
Avatar

eremHaNeoN

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:36 am
Location: Somewhere Inside the Bowels of Endlessness...
Souls: 3,162.00
Posts: 980
Reputation: 31
Wiki Edits: 38
#591
It's sad that this is ending, but on the bright side, this gives us (i.e. everyone who cares about this particular campaign - which is probably just thegourd and me to some extent; Shadowpath wants to branch out to other games to both play and design of his own, and Eldritch was more or less going along for the ride of craziness and the subplot of his enormous schlong - when the craziness waned so did his interest) more time to refine this game to have a more defined rule set, thinking of ways to accommodate people with different schedules, change a few things so nobody is stuck in one place forever trying to solve a puzzle or something (though Souls games are about trying to find your way around choosing paths to take they rarely ever stop you in place to figure out some something more appropriate to games like Myst or any old Sierra/LucasArts/Infocom adventure game - puzzles that you can solve as you go along, those are good, puzzles that stop you in your tracks until you spend several pages examining everything - was that where Charles Pendragon was on when he entered the illusory wall? - not so good - I don't think there was anything too obtuse thrown here, but some things that did slow the game to a crawl - most "puzzles" in this game should be the kind where you figure out a route around some deadly enemies or getting down a boss' pattern, etc.).

Maps need to be drawn, definitely. Lots and lots of maps, no matter how crude, as long they are legible and give you a good idea of where you are relative to everything in the environment. Maybe draw out patrol routes for enemies with arrows or something, draw out their aggro range, lock-on range - complicated things perhaps but necessary to flesh this game out. Item descriptions (and illustrations when possible) should be a necessity for anything newly introduced to the world of Dark Souls. Using the fextralife templates to make mock-up items and equipment (like I've done with a bunch of things and you, thegourd did with those Seismic Plate Gauntlets - I don't think anyone but me knew they had health regen since you gave me that info via PM) also a good thing to ground this more as a "Souls" off-shoot.

Maybe we should also consult people around here about damage/defense calculators too so that we know how much made-up weapons with made-up damage would do to certain enemies. If not here, somewhere else with a friendly community (though this is probably the friendliest out there by far that is still active - if you know other places in particular, be it a forum or subreddit, consultation there would be good too). I like the idea of us making up our own wacky weapons, armor, rings and spells but more precise calculations as to what they would do and having the formula out beforehand to figure out what they would do - would be a good thing.

I don't know how you've been keeping track of things like stamina, damage, and if the player or enemy successfully lands an attack or not, but an established formula for that should be explained - dice rolls, etc.? I've never played any P&P RPGs so I don't know how that works.

Instead of everyone starting with a set amount of health, establishing a starting SL and allowing everyone to plug in stats via mugenmonkey should be the thing to do up to that SL should be the thing to do. If some want nothing but vigor, they can be the ones to tank hits. Squishier builds who want to put everything into magic, dex or whatever, allow them that too.

Starting off with a set number of Estus Flasks is good, but considering how many spellcasters we had (all three of us - well three out of four, until I killed Tony and I took over Gai Ping Anneus when the first guy who created him stopped participating after two posts) perhaps some Ashen Estus should be allowed. Three regular Estus and one Ashen flask? Two regular and two Ashen? All Ashen or all regular? In any case I'd up the starting number to four and allow everyone to choose how to distribute them.

Perma-death as a mechanic is an interesting one and you did good to tie it to the narrative but as to what happens if a character dies (the intentional deaths to get rid of a character or quit the game don't count) should be explained more. Games with perma-death have something else to add to them. Roguelikes of course just kill you and make you restart, other games like say, Rogue Legacy - when you die in that game you switch over to play as that character's descendant and so on. How would this work in a Souls game, especially one with as unforgiving a setting as this? A game where death is a means of learning your environment, enemies and traps and how to better bypass it next time. I'd keep perma-death but add something to it - I don't know/can't think of what exactly but there should be more to it.

I do really like the other things - items being hard to come by and most of them being only barely useful or not at all useful, not at the moment anyway (the titanite shards and infusion gems), "bonfires" in the form of dead weird imp creatures with strange darksigns etched on them and disintegrating, carrying around estus shards, blacksmith's coal and upgrade materials but not knowing where or when you can use them (still yet to be found), making a long trip across a landscape of bleakness until hope possibly arrives (or doesn't). Whatever's up with the soul-filled lavender vine rocks, I wanted to know where that was going. I like the image of hundreds if not thousands of hollows picking away at materials in some sort of mining operation, a larger-scale Stonefang Tunnel kind of operation. "The void," as some dark essence overtaken the world, deadlier than the abyss itself is also cool. A world so dark you need to have a light to even find your way around most of the world itself is also neat. The tanky enemy mimics that impersonate your party members and trick the others is also brilliant, I had fun with that (too bad this was the point where Shadowpath got lost and realized he couldn't keep up with the game), keep that idea please.

Regarding maps, come up with some kind of vaguely defined world map like the ones that come with the special editions of these games a la this. Areas meant to be kept a secret/surprise you can leave off of course. As said, it need not be masterful artwork (I'm certainly in no position to scrutinize other people's art lol) as long as it's legible.

Boss encounters with YT links to music meant to set the mood of the fight/what would be playing if you were fighting this in a video game, that was great too. In addition, to give a better sense of the scenery we're surrounded by, if drawing something is out of your element, finding a picture via an image search and posting it here would be cool too. And how certain bosses look like - depending on the boss - some illustration there wouldn't be bad either. Like, say, Voidtinged Gundyr, take an image of Champion Gundyr for instance and via some image manipulation, be it MS Paint, GIMP, Photoshop or whatever - edit it so the changes to the character are more apparent, like the thing with the limping calf with dark mist coming out of it, the part where a fist larger than him bursts out of one of his gauntlets until he bursts out of his armor completely and becomes some giant, vine-covered...thing(?).

It need not be too complex or restrictive - I wouldn't mind starting over again as Gai Ping Anneus with the same equipment, same look, same... everything really (maybe I'll thrown in a few repair powders this time though). Tony too, maybe. He still may be killed off early or perhaps just vanishes since that... well you know, from the PM exchanges. And I STILL want to do that one boss fight set to that music and that map I PM'ed to you too. **** I wish any of these games had some custom story creator or something... anyway allow the relative freedom we had to make up whatever we wanted to but grounded with more fleshed-out game mechanics/rules along with the maps and stuff and all the other things I mentioned (along with the suggestion of not going so many pages ahead that everyone else gets left behind).

Also for any items/weapons we make up with descriptions, etc. you should document those, not just the items you made. To keep us from having to go back pages to where we designed our characters and equipment and having to re-describe their effects to everyone again. Like my dank paper-rolled blossoms - before it turned into just a character quirk the item had utility - raising defense a bit and slowing down damage taken, as well as slowing down built-up status effects, with the catch being that my stamina recovery takes a hit (to add to that maybe aim accuracy takes a hit too - the chances of attacks landing, either melee or, especially, long-ranged, are reduced). What I mean by "slowing down damage taken" (I didn't know how that would work until now) is that rather than damage taken being an instant health loss it is a gradual health loss a la Earthbound, where I might take enough damage that would normally be instant death but if I Estus up or something I can prevent the death in time.

Oh yeah, auxiliary effects. My weapon could induce bleed (and tetanus!) but it never came into play that I ever saw. Bleed/poison/toxic/curse/frost/tetanus build up, figure that **** out man! I fought a nasty-ass Mimic chest who took off almost all my health. They are weak to bleed if I recall. Anything weak to any auxiliary effects that are party of anyone's weapon should be taken into account (again with calculators if we can find someone here who can give us a good formula to use for calculating damage).

Well that covers most of the things I'd like to see. This campaign needs more refinement/rules/maps and so on before letting it out in the open again, starting with some of the above suggestions. I don't know if this will actually bring in people to play along (that's another issue we'll have to figure out separately - all I can tell you is that I'm available most times of most days unless the odd situation comes up where I'm not and will inform you in that case), but it'll make for a better game for those who do decide to play (really though where can we find people to play along? Not many takers so far, not here anyway).

This is a great setting for Souls and anticipated where it was headed. I hope you read everything I wrote (responding paragraph by paragraph so I know you've taken it all in) and keep some of these things in mind. If I have any ideas I'll shoot some your way. If you figure out some significant improvements, well, incorporate them into the game of course. That should be started on now - then the issue as to how to attract players to the game is another thing to work on, however THAT will be done - which I don't know, that'll probably be the most difficult part of this entire game.
Through Dark Souls of futures past. The speed runner longs to see. One boosts between a pair of binos. Parry Walk with Me.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 5,855.50
Posts: 1008
Reputation: 42
#592
Finally had a chance to read all that.. lol.

I think you covered most things I would add in terms of refining it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any major improvements that it needs beyond what you mentioned. But I would really like to help with this. I would rather help keep it going and help improve it rather than play it due to my obsessive compulsive psychology.
If further down the line we could get multiple games and multiple DMs, I would surely roll several characters. Easier to get my daily fix that way. And not get stuck in game limbo.

Well here's something. I'm sure the beginning of our quest turned many people away due to all the goofing off. And the fact that it was still in brainstorming stages. Potentially curious people were probably shrugging it off as our own little wanna-be Harmmon's Quest (and I'm fine with that). But to bring in players, there needs to be something they can actually get into and understand.

I mean, how many pages in were we before we even knew what SL we were? And not once did 'thegourd' consider how often I had Affinity on me. He never added it into my damage, or decided when the orbs launched.
and instead of being a nitpicker, I just said screw it and picked up that new miracle (because obviously my Dark wasn't going to get me very far in the game).
I didn't even mention the fact that my damage was split with Dark when he would add my damage. I was like...
Whoa.. what?! Great Soul Dreg did nothing to Gundyr, but my DAGGERS with split Dark damage ripped him up?
Again. I wasn't judging. This was just the gamer in my head. I didn't care at any point becuase we were just messing around.
Then things got crazy. So far behind. Time sequence jumps, red names!, and mimics that turns into players and throws chocolate ninja stars.
And a lot of making up stuff on the fly, which Goblin and myself were just as equally guilty for. But this is what will turn people away, Especially if they have other things that they should probably be doing.

We need rules. Listed on a thread that isn't on the actual game thread. It could also have a thread for character sheets and maybe another for feedback, for discussions just like this.

That's why it would be awesome to have a subforum, but it would an @$$hole move to even ask if all we have is a handful (less) of interested people.

Err, I got more, but got to go for a sec.
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 5,855.50
Posts: 1008
Reputation: 42
#593
Just adding.
I got some dice today. I needed them anyway down the line and this seemed a good reason to go ahead and get them. Can't remember what thegourd said he was using. But I got a pack with several types.

I can also help with maps, but I do everything on my phone so that's a problem for now. I've been wanting to just get a laptop anyway, so if this can turn into something, I would have an easier time messing with links and pics.

And most importantly. While it needs rules, it would be nice to still implement some craziness. But more in the adventure and less with us just making stuff up. That gives windows for players to interact with the craziness. Yes, I know, erem, it was getting there. Sorry for blowing my brains out all over the wall. Maybe I acted rashly and could have just asked for a pause while we actually figured out what we were doing.
Morning bus rides. Go figure.
(That morning I was too busy trying to look at my phone and I actually got on the wrong bus. It was in front of the one I needed. Realized it of course as soon as it turned.. it only set me back a couple blocks, but enough time to have to wait on my next bus.
Never did that before.. suicide followed)
Avatar

Nahztek-Shadowpath

Insomniac
Sinner

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:39 pm
Souls: 5,855.50
Posts: 1008
Reputation: 42
#594
How about Phantoms?

That's what was missing. And how you can keep people together for a time or let them branch off and do their own thing if that's what they want to do.

And it can be optional. You have your host character and then you have your Phantom character that can join others in their quest. It's basically a text version of the already implemented online system.
Players could invade too maybe. But must obtain the Red Eye Orb through a covenant.
I think co-op should be open and can be done on the fly. Just not during combat.
It's an idea to play with, and already a big part of DS.
Avatar

eremHaNeoN

Caffeinated
Guardian

Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:36 am
Location: Somewhere Inside the Bowels of Endlessness...
Souls: 3,162.00
Posts: 980
Reputation: 31
Wiki Edits: 38
#595
It seems thegourd has abandoned this thread for the new one, over here. I'll repost everything you had to say here over there though for convenience's sake.
Through Dark Souls of futures past. The speed runner longs to see. One boosts between a pair of binos. Parry Walk with Me.
Shop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop IconShop Icon
 60