Discuss the latest Dark Souls Title!
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Rangrok

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#41
IgnusKnavery wrote:Opinions are like *******. Everyone has one. Saying such and such is the best miracle, dark, sorcery, or pyro spell is completely relative. No one is going to agree. It's like discussing what the best weapon is for a particular build. Opinions don't mean anything.

Yeah but some people take the time to clean their... opinions.

Nothing wrong with a good debate every now and then, even if we don't get a clear winner.

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#42
TSMP wrote:Actually, I kind of like the Archdeacon Great Staff and Golden Ritual Spear as-is. Note that 60fth costs roughly 50 levels, whereas 40int+40fth costs roughly 60 levels, so you can go 20int+60fth for the same total level investment, and in practice Archdeacon's is only slightly less powerful than Court Sorcerer Staff. You get to use all the good sorceries at very nearly full power, while still having fully powered miracles with Yorshka's Chime. ADS and GRS are for Faith-heavy dual casters, so they're pretty unique.

If you can spare a ring slot for the Darkmoon Ring, it opens up a lot of possibilities with spell loadouts. Two extra slots is not a bad deal when you're pyromancy or miracles and all the good **** costs two slots.


Oh, that's actually another problem of mine. 40 Int + 40 Faith does indeed give you indeed the equillavant of 60 Int or Faith by their lonesome... With means that a Pyromancer actually needs, on a fully optimized build with the proper starting class chosen, 8 more stats than a Sorcerer or Cleric. 8 point might not seem a lot, but for a build that alredy is struggling with points, this is pretty bothersome.

I know that back how it worked in DS2, it was far too much tipped in the favour of Pyromancers and Hexers, where 30 Int + 30 Faith gave you the equillavant of 60 Int/Faith. Now, because Pyromancies deal so much damage by their lonesome already, this isn't toooo bad, but if there ever should be a proper re-balancing of spells, they should made it so that you "cap" at 35 Int + 35 Faith. That Way Pyro's might have 2 points more than Clerics and Sorcerers, but that is a much fairer difference than 8.

Eh, I know you that's a possibility with the Archdeacon Great Staff, but it still really doesn't do it for me. You basically gimp your Miracle damage to maybe get a Great Farron Dart that also isn't as powerful if just going full Sorceror. I know, that should be how it works when going hybrid, but then there is also that silly fact about those darn Rings, increasing that gap even more. I might be okay if only the Deacon Staff worked that way, but the Golden Ritual Spear should have a gimmick more unique to itself instead of being the melee version of said Staff.

This also forces me to think about how the Scholars and Cleric's Candlestick requires Faith. I know that that is a running theme with the Deacon weapons, and it isn't much here, but that still are points wasted for nothing except if you go for a very, very specific build... At what point you are probably better off using another catalyst weapon.

Though why the Scholar's Candle stick requires Fiaith is beyond me. I mean, it only effects Sorceries... And it's a Scholar's Candlestick. Even the description hardly makes any sense to give this thing a Faith requirement. I guess it hardly matters, but still, it locks up options for Int Sorcerers to possibly use this as a (stilly very bad) weapon instead of just get it for the buff it grants.
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Rizen

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#43
I've noticed floating chaos is too slow to be good but has situational uses. In the Irithyll circular arena opponents can't hide behind anything and have to rush you at the start so it's great there. If you're in a group for whatever reason it acts like a sentry turret that shoots 3 times. This is a big aid to other party members and lets you act before the spell runs out.

Too bad scholar's candlesticks can't be made simple or parry.
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TSMP

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#44
MrMoho wrote:Oh, that's actually another problem of mine. 40 Int + 40 Faith does indeed give you indeed the equillavant of 60 Int or Faith by their lonesome... With means that a Pyromancer actually needs, on a fully optimized build with the proper starting class chosen, 8 more stats than a Sorcerer or Cleric. 8 point might not seem a lot, but for a build that alredy is struggling with points, this is pretty bothersome.

I know that back how it worked in DS2, it was far too much tipped in the favour of Pyromancers and Hexers, where 30 Int + 30 Faith gave you the equillavant of 60 Int/Faith. Now, because Pyromancies deal so much damage by their lonesome already, this isn't toooo bad, but if there ever should be a proper re-balancing of spells, they should made it so that you "cap" at 35 Int + 35 Faith. That Way Pyro's might have 2 points more than Clerics and Sorcerers, but that is a much fairer difference than 8.

Eh, I know you that's a possibility with the Archdeacon Great Staff, but it still really doesn't do it for me. You basically gimp your Miracle damage to maybe get a Great Farron Dart that also isn't as powerful if just going full Sorceror. I know, that should be how it works when going hybrid, but then there is also that silly fact about those darn Rings, increasing that gap even more. I might be okay if only the Deacon Staff worked that way, but the Golden Ritual Spear should have a gimmick more unique to itself instead of being the melee version of said Staff.

This also forces me to think about how the Scholars and Cleric's Candlestick requires Faith. I know that that is a running theme with the Deacon weapons, and it isn't much here, but that still are points wasted for nothing except if you go for a very, very specific build... At what point you are probably better off using another catalyst weapon.

Though why the Scholar's Candle stick requires Fiaith is beyond me. I mean, it only effects Sorceries... And it's a Scholar's Candlestick. Even the description hardly makes any sense to give this thing a Faith requirement. I guess it hardly matters, but still, it locks up options for Int Sorcerers to possibly use this as a (stilly very bad) weapon instead of just get it for the buff it grants.

Yeah, increased costs like that are why people started going to SL125. At one point I had a pyromancer with 40vig, 30att, 12str, 12dex, 45int and 45fth (dark catalyst and crystal chime softcap plus spell access) for SL120 overall, then I bumped Dex to 17 for Witch's Locks and Demon Scar for SL125. The low stamina is kind of a pain when using anything that isn't a rapier, straight sword, or curved sword, but I'm fine with it since those are the weapons I generally use anyways.

Fun Fact: with the Priestess Ring, even a 7fth Sorcerer can equip the Cleric's Candlestick and Immolation Tinder. As for Scholar's Candlestick, at least you don't actually need the Faith to get the spell boost, otherwise it'd only be good on high-level dark sorcery builds, and it's not like losing damage on it really makes that much of a difference.

Archdeacon... I mean, yeah, pound for pound it's less efficient than just using a normal Court Sorcerer Staff, sticking solely to miracles, or just using the damn Crystal Chime, but there's still the fact that it's slightly stronger with sorcery at 60fth than the chime is and the build itself is hella stronger with miracles. You're giving up pyromancy to be a little bit better at miracles and sorcery, and personally I think it's cool how that's even an option at all. It isn't a solution I'd have been able to come up with on my own, since it's so outlandish. I wouldn't change the Golden Ritual Spear much at all personally, since it's already so bizarre and requires such a specific build that maintaining basic functionality is more important than standing out more than it already does.

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#45
TSMP wrote:Yeah, increased costs like that are why people started going to SL125. At one point I had a pyromancer with 40vig, 30att, 12str, 12dex, 45int and 45fth (dark catalyst and crystal chime softcap plus spell access) for SL120 overall, then I bumped Dex to 17 for Witch's Locks and Demon Scar for SL125. The low stamina is kind of a pain when using anything that isn't a rapier, straight sword, or curved sword, but I'm fine with it since those are the weapons I generally use anyways.

Fun Fact: with the Priestess Ring, even a 7fth Sorcerer can equip the Cleric's Candlestick and Immolation Tinder. As for Scholar's Candlestick, at least you don't actually need the Faith to get the spell boost, otherwise it'd only be good on high-level dark sorcery builds, and it's not like losing damage on it really makes that much of a difference.

Archdeacon... I mean, yeah, pound for pound it's less efficient than just using a normal Court Sorcerer Staff, sticking solely to miracles, or just using the damn Crystal Chime, but there's still the fact that it's slightly stronger with sorcery at 60fth than the chime is and the build itself is hella stronger with miracles. You're giving up pyromancy to be a little bit better at miracles and sorcery, and personally I think it's cool how that's even an option at all. It isn't a solution I'd have been able to come up with on my own, since it's so outlandish. I wouldn't change the Golden Ritual Spear much at all personally, since it's already so bizarre and requires such a specific build that maintaining basic functionality is more important than standing out more than it already does.


Indeed, but that still something I find rather bothering. I mean, a pure Strength/Dex build pretty much maxes out all his required stats at almost level 100, especially if taking use of the Prisoner's Chain, so Spellcasters are always faaar behind. They sorta tried to fix that in DS2 with Adaptability by giving melee build a stat they "had" to skill... Though not really. Albeit that offered for more build variety, too. I mean... Strength/Dex build put stats into anything because whatever past 100, anyways, sooo I guess they don't get too much of a benefit over Spellcasters then...

I do know that a mere Priestess Ring fixes that issue, but we are talking about a ring slot for a build that already greatly struggles with those.

Yeah, that can make the Deacon Staff a bit more useful, but that only is possible on a high level build to get all those points going. I do personally try to stay at level 100 with each build, even spellcasters, mixing and mashing to see how to still stay relevantly decent despite the lack of points. Archdeacon won't see any use around those levels.
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#46
Wow this was a great read! And contrary to a comment above you can learn a lot from others opinions, especially if you are willing to take a step back from yourself and take in what is being said.

I've found with being a caster that surprise or mixing it up is the biggest offense there is. Finding something that catches your opponent off guard can give you the advantage. Sometimes it isn't about whether this spell or that is the most op. It's the feeling you give your opponent, that matters. Putting someone out off their comfort zone, or even making someone over confident, can cause them to lose. And imo that's why it's so much more fun to play with casters. You aren't 'stuck' with a weapon, or moveset. You can have so many more things 'up your sleeve' so to speak. It's more versatile. And while I'm never going to be in the top ranks of pvp, I have a lot of fun playing. And to me that's what matters.

I look forward to reading more on this from those that have much more informed thoughts and meaning in their comments lol
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Rizen

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#47
I worked up to Slv 120. Should I go 5 levels higher? I want to stay with the meta but the extra 5 levels would be nice.
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IgnusKnavery

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#48
Rizen wrote:I worked up to Slv 120. Should I go 5 levels higher? I want to stay with the meta but the extra 5 levels would be nice.


There's still argument about the meta. I know a LOT of people that are going to 140 because you can still fight people in the 120 range. SL120 is not enough in Dark Souls 3 and I think most people know that. It's not high enough to actually have fun with a character anyway. You can set the meta at any level with PVP, but you set it too low and people are just going to be punching each other and dying really fast. :)
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MrMoho

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#49
Added my personal ranking to Buffs and Support spells. It's kinda awkwardly placed, since I hit the character limit and I still wanted it to be on the first page, thus I replaced the content of my first reply which wasn't too important anymore, as I made the same point I made in it later on this thread... Probably could've handled this one better. Anyways, I'm open to discuss again!
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