Discuss the latest Dark Souls Title!
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#11
[quote="Grehym_Blak"]Its well to document the multitude of ganks in DS to discredit this lame bash of DS2, but IMO, even if there were more ganks in DS2 I'd still tell the plaintive "Shut up, and put up!" It's a perfectly valid way to increase difficulty, try again. Nay sayers man...they might have a point with SotFS tho. I've been getting wrekt by a lot of crap I don't remember, but I like it #SickPuppy[/]

There is a part in OIK where you drop down into a gank that in no way possible can anyone describe as well made or fun. I'd like to see someone try.

Everyone knows where I'm talking about.
If my best strat is to play ring-around-the-rosie while I lure the mobs far enough away so that I can open the door fast enough and just get the hell out of there, I call BS.
Yes, I've cleared the rooms many times. I had 16 characters in DS2 and cleared all content with them all. After awhile it's no longer about planning. It's just tedious.
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skarekrow13

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#12
That's an interesting point about memorable encounters.
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#13
skarekrow13 wrote:That's an interesting point about memorable encounters.



To be fair, Nioh is similar in this regard. I absolutely love the enemy types in Nioh (Japanese demons? Hell yeah!) but it's more like DS2 with enemy placement, gank mobs, and not-so-memorable 1v1 encounters.
The reason why I don't notice it so much in Nioh is because I feel the combat is designed for ganks, where DS always felt like it shined during 1v1 encounters.

Even when I recently played SotFS again, I found myself backpeddling and luring more than any other Souls game.

All that said, DS2 did have some cool areas. But for me a lot of it had to do with aesthetics instead of encounters. And I'll be honest here. I enjoy the aesthetics of DS2 more than 3. Which is why I was so let down by winter wonderland (AoA).
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skarekrow13

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#14
My argument really was simple that both games are gank fests.

I think there's some good logic that it's easier to forgive with a unique mob tossed in on a frequent basis.

I also think many of us suffered from playing the first game a lot. By knowing all the encounters in the first game, the surprises seem harsher in 2.

To give a parallel, in Demon's Souls I mostly played NG+ and beyond. After being used to that, I was shocked at how easy NG felt
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#15
Chalk me up as someone else who agrees with the Placement over Enemy Count being the difference. Again, to mirror others, I enjoyed Dark Souls 2. But the way rooms were arranged in the first game, be them with small amounts of enemies or flash mobs, they seemed designed with a kind of care to how you approached them that...I guess felt better? There was more strategy involved, and you only really got the whole room on you if rushed. There was more punishment for carelessness, whereas in Dark Souls 2 it was more common to step into an area and trip a generalized aggro.

To cite some examples, the hollow party that jumps you before the bell tower gargoyles is on a proximity trigger that forces the player into an immediate defensive position in a narrow space. In this situation, you are introduced to an enemy that can buff lesser enemies and places an amount of them that turns what was the weakest enemy fought thus far in the game into a wall of shambling death. It was a teaching tool, putting the player in a specific situation that set the stage for later encounters. A lot of the situations in Dark Souls were like this, where the flash mobs in Dark Souls 2 seemed more commonly placed in styles we had seen in Demon's and the first Dark Souls. Not bad, not saying that.

What someone else said has merit too, the varieties of enemies we saw in the first game funneled players through locations differently. I definitely fought everything I came across in Dark Souls 2, but the other Soulsborne games had me look at certain foes and say, "nope," and put me in a position to come back later when I was stronger., better prepared. I wasn't afraid of fighting anything in Dark Souls 2, to put it another way.
Last edited by TheManWhoLaughs on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#16
skarekrow13 wrote:My argument really was simple that both games are gank fests.

I think there's some good logic that it's easier to forgive with a unique mob tossed in on a frequent basis.

I also think many of us suffered from playing the first game a lot. By knowing all the encounters in the first game, the surprises seem harsher in 2.

To give a parallel, in Demon's Souls I mostly played NG+ and beyond. After being used to that, I was shocked at how easy NG felt


Yeah, I actually agree with the argument that they all have gank mobs. When I think of DS2 enemy placement, I always think of the bridge in DeS in the last section of the first level. That kind of enemy placement seemed like the mold that they made DS2 around (imo).
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#17
Let's also remember that when we talk about Dark Souls 2, we're talking about Scholar correct? They did have to totally revamp the enemy placement in the whole game (and it really was an improvement). It's easy to forget, but there was definitely more sporadic blandness throughout the game before the upgrade. I still think the DLCs for the 2nd game are fantastic and much better on this front.
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skarekrow13

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#18
I heard complaints about groups of mobs being cheap since almost day 1 of DS2 so the article is either version.

As far as discussing the quality of placement and interesting enemies, I'd be on the side that prefers the PS4 version. The Pursuer actually pursuing, the Forlorn and the small tweaks are better. My only complaint is still that the Heide Knight placement was better pre-SotFS
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Nahztek-Shadowpath

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#19
@TheManWhoLaughs
Very true. I played the DlCs as they released (Sunken City was my favorite) and they really added to the game.
But I didn't play they revamped SotFS until last fall, and even though it's the most recent for me, the 30 odd times that I cleared the game before that definitely sticks out in my mind the most.

That said, SotFS did wonders for DS2 enemy placement. I'll admit that I'm a bit disappointed that it was not how I originally played it. Especially since it finally added Aldia, something that would have meant a lot more to me if it was present in the original game.

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#20
For me, Dark Souls 2 had problems with variety and uninspired designs. So many enemies are just humanoids that rush you. So many traps are just enemies out of your line of sight attacking you. So many bosses are just humanoids with weapons.

On their own, all of those things are perfectly fine. They're the bread and butter of Dark Souls. However you need more than bread and butter to make a memorable sandwich. Dark Souls 2's bread and butter happens to be particularly bland. Heck, you can beat like 90% of the enemies in DS2 by swinging a strong weapon when they get within reach, staggering them out of their attacks.

So I guess my complaint is not the quantity of ganks but the quality of ganks.
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