On the Topic of Gangs of Mobs in Dark Souls

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Topic review

by Fallenangel700 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:48 am
Taurus Demon Super Action Hyper Force? Oh man, that's a good one.


by skarekrow13 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:22 am
It's adequate, and has better range than anything else in the game, but it's far from a true bow. Also, the inability to really free aim takes advanced sniper tactics out of most equations. It's no big deal, since Bloodborne is definitely not geared toward the same type of combat but I doubt most avid Souls archers took it too seriously as a bow.


by Back_Lot_Basher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:47 am
skarekrow13 wrote:The only game where bows aren't super useful is Bloodborne IMO.


There's a DLC weapon that turns into a bow, correct? How is it? I never bothered with a second playthrough (my main is an Arcane build), so didn't have a chance to try it.


by skarekrow13 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:32 am
The only game where bows aren't super useful is Bloodborne IMO. Even in 2, I can get the Alonne Knights in almost exclusively 1v1 fights with careful walking and bow use. DS2 is the only one (if I recall) that allows you to cast while using binoculars too, which means soul arrows are also sniper tools. When I did my caster run in that game for instance, I was able to blast the Knights in the Bastille through the window.

I'm so confident that DS2 and DS1 are so similar in approach, that I honestly feel like I can take any scenario in DS2 and give a DS1 parallel or give a method to negate the gank. Probably both.


by Back_Lot_Basher » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:13 am
These games have always had gang mobs, IIRC, but each executed them in different ways. Souls 2, I thought, had more than a few "set pieces" where you were dropped into a gank without any choice (the scrotum guys leading to the Ruined Road, and the first collapsible floor in the Gutter, come to mind). In Souls 1, I learned to aggro everything from range, even if it was just by using baby steps and a shield (hello, Blighttown). BB gave you those stones to use, but the game seemed designed from the get go to work with mob dynamics, and so I found those fairly easy to deal with if you kept your wits). Souls 3 seems closest to Souls 1 in this way, where bows make things much more manageable, but certain enemy types (like Corvians), can throw a wrench into the works if you aren't careful.


by skarekrow13 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:47 am
Also, I get the aggravation with the Alonne knights before the Smelter fight, but literally anything that applies there is also present in the Duke's Archives

Snipers with crazy aim and distance? Check
Enemies that aggro from a different room and come in? Check

I didn't cover it in the list but let's review the Duke's Archives (the worst area for ganks in my opinion):
-Come up the elevator and have two crystals warriors rush you. Note that the archer at the top of the stairs is already firing at you
-Dispatch the two warriors and approach the archer to have another couple melee warriors try to stop that
-Kill the archer and find out you're eating a Soul Spear to the face. Turn to confront the Channeler to find two more crystal warriors have aggroed from the other room and are rushing in to stop you
-The Channeler has likely buffed most of the room by now, and as you go in to face him, there's a high probability MORE warriors have aggroed (possible coming from behind) and an archer on the stairs is now lending support
-This run I went in and lit up the Channeler with a +10 divine Gargoyle Ax with 30 something faith and 20 something dex. I couldn't kill it before he teleported away
-Face an archer and have another from even higher up the stairs start shooting, while at least one warrior joins the fray and the Channeler is likely hucking Souls Spears again
-Manage to kill the archers and find out the Channeler is hiding behind more crystal warriors still throwing Soul Spears
-Approaching the warriors I believe has another sneak attack from the left hand side (balcony if I recall right)

The two areas to me are very similar. Melee warriors in both places aggro from crazy distances away, archers have absurd range and aim. And if you walk even an extra step or two more than you should you will be swarmed.


by skarekrow13 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:32 am
Is that the room you can let the torch hollows down into and let them wreak havoc? Has the big dude guarding the door and a bunch of smaller mobs and a shard of the Queen?

I love that room. Fire arrows and torch mobs both can work wonders there and it's honestly hilarious to me to see what the little guys can do for you

EDIT: Sorry, barrel mobs, not torch mobs.

Anyway, if it's the room I'm thinking of, all you need to do is herd the barrel mobs into the opening of the floor near the ladder. They'll wander around and if they go near the big dude with lava jetting out...KABOOM!

You can also aggro the other enemies into an area where they're near the barrel guys and can still be hit with a flame spell or a fire arrow.


by Grehym_Blak » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:18 am
Nahztek-Shadowpath wrote:
Grehym_Blak wrote:Its well to document the multitude of ganks in DS to discredit this lame bash of DS2, but IMO, even if there were more ganks in DS2 I'd still tell the plaintive "Shut up, and put up!" It's a perfectly valid way to increase difficulty, try again. Nay sayers man...they might have a point with SotFS tho. I've been getting wrekt by a lot of crap I don't remember, but I like it #SickPuppy[/]

There is a part in OIK where you drop down into a gank that in no way possible can anyone describe as well made or fun. I'd like to see someone try.

Everyone knows where I'm talking about.
If my best strat is to play ring-around-the-rosie while I lure the mobs far enough away so that I can open the door fast enough and just get the hell out of there, I call BS.
Yes, I've cleared the rooms many times. I had 16 characters in DS2 and cleared all content with them all. After awhile it's no longer about planning. It's just tedious.


Hahahahahaha, I just got to that point last night in my trip down memory lane, which really isn't memory lane since it's SotFS, WOW! Ganked from long range and ganked in the face, glorious :mask-averice:

Oh wait, you're probably referring to OIK dlc...I'm just talking about redic aggro range of the Alonne Knights in the Smelter gambit. Felt like there were more of them too, IDK. This trip through Drangleic has been brutal. And I'm totally OP, I'm chump'n bosses, but the hoards are wrek'n my face. And gawd are the mechanics in DS2 total ****, how did I ever cope? It's so annoying, I'm constantly swinging in the wrong direction, even when locked on. If I didnt know better I'd think my controller was broken.


by skarekrow13 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:10 am
I'd have to count both games to make a consistent statement, but that seems opposite my experience.

With;
Creeping forward (to avoid the often tiny differences in aggro spots between enemies),
Backpedaling (to let faster enemies get taken out first), and
Archery...

I can't think of more than a few spots in either game you can't isolate enemies out of a gang.

I even ran a mage in 2 and a faith Knight in 1 (neither use a bow) and my experience is basically the same.


by Beatsy_Ray » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:44 pm
I think the main difference is that ganks in ds1 were avoidable. If you stumbled into a horde and died, you could usually avoid it on your second try by taking out enemies one by one, or in the most efficient order. While in ds2, even if you knew what was coming, you were often forced into crossing a line that agroed every enemy and forced you to fight them all at once.